Koetsu Coralstone

jadis · Jan 24, 2014

This is an old picture I took of the Tiger Eye Diamond Cantilever years ago before it went to its owner. How I wish I took a macro of the diamond cantilever. I am just thinking, if the stylus was just glued into the tip of the cantilever, then the so-called benefit of the interface issue would be lost.

JackD201 · Jan 24, 2014

This klutz would be too scared to own one of those!

MylesBAstor · Jan 24, 2014

JackD201 said:
This klutz would be too scared to own one of those!

That's why I love the new VPI arm lift. I've never seen a lift place the cartridge down more softly on a record. And we often forget that this is the part that often puts the most strain on the cantilever.

JackD201 · Jan 24, 2014

The only thing I miss from my MM days was "Macho" cueing. LOL!

Frank750 · Jan 24, 2014

I'm curious while reading this thread, do you guys always use the arm lift to place the arm and pick it up or do you do it by hand?

jadis · Jan 24, 2014

Frank750 said:
I'm curious while reading this thread, do you guys always use the arm lift to place the arm and pick it up or do you do it by hand?

arm lift all my life.

jadis · Jan 24, 2014

JackD201 said:
The only thing I miss from my MM days was "Macho" cueing. LOL!

jack, our late friend attorney Jun was a macho man in cueing. didn't use his cueing lever, broke a black and a gold urushi. i witnessed the latter. it breaks my heart to see these things happen.

audioarcher · Jan 24, 2014

MylesBAstor said:
That's why I love the new VPI arm lift. I've never seen a lift place the cartridge down more softly on a record. And we often forget that this is the part that often puts the most strain on the cantilever.

So, how new is the arm lift? Did it just come out , or has it been out for awhile? Most tonearm manufactures use the same out sourced arm lift. Much cheaper that way. Is this a VPI designed lift?

While we are on the subject, I don't think you would want an arm lift to lower too slowly. On a warped record, if the lift does not lower fast enough, the warp may catch it and send it bouncing. Not that I have ever seen that happen.

JackD201 · Jan 24, 2014

jadis said:
jack, our late friend attorney Jun was a macho man in cueing. didn't use his cueing lever, broke a black and a gold urushi. i witnessed the latter. it breaks my heart to see these things happen.

I remember Phil, that used to be my urushi gold remember? He got my Urushi, I got Sam's Jade and Sam got the Tiger Eye

I miss good ol' Uncle Fester. He was a hoot!

MylesBAstor · Jan 24, 2014

audioarcher said:
So, how new is the arm lift? Did it just come out , or has it been out for awhile? Most tonearm manufactures use the same out sourced arm lift. Much cheaper that way. Is this a VPI designed lift?

While we are on the subject, I don't think you would want an arm lift to lower too slowly. On a warped record, if the lift does not lower fast enough, the warp may catch it and send it bouncing. Not that I have ever seen that happen.

I don't know but will eventually check. VPI sourced the last lift from Japan so I imagine the same people could have built this one.

I think bouncing the cartridge when lowering is more deleterious. Plus there are no warped records with the VPI so that's a moot point.

jadis · Jan 24, 2014

JackD201 said:
I remember Phil, that used to be my urushi gold remember? He got my Urushi, I got Sam's Jade and Sam got the Tiger Eye

I miss good ol' Uncle Fester. He was a hoot!

Oh yeah Jack, I almost forgot that bit. To think that I was again a witness to that transaction both ways. LOL The guy was a hoot indeed. Lots of jokes, loves to eat anything, and always pays in cash. LOL I remember the night I brought him over to Sam's place to but the gold Urushi, after looking at it for a couple to seconds, he signaled his sidekick who was carrying a bag of cash, and instructed him: 'Pay the man!' I'm not sure if the line came from The Godfather or Goodfellas. LOL

JackD201 · Jan 24, 2014

aka The Human Remote Control LOL!

To this day Jun was the only guy I know who had someone else to cue records for him LOL! Frantz would have liked Jun. Jun used HUGE UPS power for his entire system!

jadis · Jan 24, 2014

JackD201 said:
aka The Human Remote Control LOL!

To this day Jun was the only guy I know who had someone else to cue records for him LOL! Frantz would have liked Jun. Jun used HUGE UPS power for his entire system!

Again, I witnessed my first ever human remote control experience, also acted as record changer - Eagles Hotel California please..., so a DJ and a a jukebox all in one.

Coincidentally, they have the same name, the HRC and the owner. LOL. Btw, the owner was an ardent Koetsu lover. He started with a Black which I demo'ed at his house. After a few minutes, he requested my then 12 year old son to cover his ears. I wondered why, then he uttered: 'Man...this is f*^^%&%&ing GOOD...*more expletives*.'

He paid for it, and in the next few weeks, bought a Rosewood Signature and Urushi for his 2 other turntables. What a guy.

JackD201 · Jan 24, 2014

Hahahahahahahha! Cover your ears! Hahahahahahaha! CLASSIC!

Ron Resnick · May 5, 2015

This is a question for people who own, or who have heard and are very familiar with, Koetsu Coralstone (or Jade or Tigereye) and Rosewood Signature Platinum cartridges:

Does the midrange on the Coralstone have the exact same warm/musical/"romantic" tonal balance as traditional wood-bodied Koetsus, but with a flatter frequency response in the extremes, or does the midrange (do vocals, for example) sound qualitatively different on the Coralstone than on the Rosewood Signature Platinum?

Ron Resnick · May 10, 2015

I would like to solicit the members who own Koetsu stone body cartridges once again to try to rationalize and understand the stone body cartridge line-up. (With certain different stone body cartridges at the same price point it almost seems as though Koetsu is having fun trying to drive neurotically-inclined audiophiles a bit daft!)

I think it was Mike Lavigne who wrote that the different sonic characteristics of the stone body cartridges are attributable to the MOH (hardness) of each of the stone materials. I have attempted to line up each of the Koetsu names (i.e., stones) of the stone body cartridges against the MOH list of stones, but, based on the subjective comments I have read about the sonic characteristic of the stone body cartridges, there does not seem to be a consistent, linear relationship between MOH number and sound (i.e., the harder stone bodies being progressively more detail-oriented and analytical as you go up the MOH scale, and the softer stone bodies progressively having a warmer total balance as you go down the MOH scale).

Is there a way to rationalize the Koetsu stone body line-up (or not because different people will hear different things from each model of cartridge)?

(Selfishly, if I could determine conclusively which of the Koetsu stone bodies is lowest on the hardness scale and prove that that cartridge, for that reason, produces the least detail- oriented/"analytical" sound, with the slightly warmest tonal balance of the whole group, then I could compare that stone body winner to the Rosewood Signature Platinum and my personal cartridge puzzle would be narrowed down to two contenders!)

Thank you!

rockitman · May 10, 2015

RonR said:
I would like to solicit the members who own Koetsu stone body cartridges once again to try to rationalize and understand the stone body cartridge line-up. (With certain different stone body cartridges at the same price point it almost seems as though Koetsu is having fun trying to drive neurotically-inclined audiophiles a bit daft!)

I think it was Mike Lavigne who wrote that the different sonic characteristics of the stone body cartridges are attributable to the MOH (hardness) of each of the stone materials. I have attempted to line up each of the Koetsu names (i.e., stones) of the stone body cartridges against the MOH list of stones, but, based on the subjective comments I have read about the sonic characteristic of the stone body cartridges, there does not seem to be a consistent, linear relationship between MOH number and sound (i.e., the harder stone bodies being progressively more detail-oriented and analytical as you go up the MOH scale, and the softer stone bodies progressively having a warmer total balance as you go down the MOH scale).

Is there a way to rationalize the Koetsu stone body line-up (or not because different people will hear different things from each model of cartridge)?

(Selfishly, if I could determine conclusively which of the Koetsu stone bodies is lowest on the hardness scale and prove that that cartridge, for that reason, produces the least detail- oriented/"analytical" sound, with the slightly warmest tonal balance of the whole group, then I could compare that stone body winner to the Rosewood Signature Platinum and my personal cartridge puzzle would be narrowed down to two contenders!)

Thank you!

I think the differences are very subtle between the upper level stone bodies. I have coralstone and tiger eye...none of which sound hard or analytical to me...they sound like music. I can't even put into words the difference between tiger and coralstone, so I won't. If you want more analytical I think you need the diamond cantilever...my dealer has heard the coralstone with both boron and diamond cantilevers...he prefers the sound of boron. He felt the treble had a bit too much zing with diamond....of course like anything, it is all system dependent...

JackD201 · May 10, 2015

The wood bodies are definitely more mids and upper bass centered compared to the stone bodies. The non platinum more so. Now the MOHs scale thing should not be confused with the price of the carts. In my experience the Blue Lace owns the distinction of having the most delicate highs followed by the Tiger-Eye. The less expensive stone bodies (depending on market prices for the stones e.g. at one point the jade was most expensive) just happened to have the higher density (Onyx and Jade). The Coral Stone is in between making it the "all-a-rounder" of the family. I've yet to play with an Azule. Also in my admittedly limited experience, I've found that Koetsus and other carts with stubby cantilevers typically best on non-unipivot arms. I mount mine on either a TriPlanar U2 or a 4-Point albeit I've never tried it on my Elite. The earlier B-44s worked well but were not IMO ideal matches. It left some potential on the table.

Audiocrack · May 10, 2015

My coral stone diamond never sounds harsh or analytical in my tube based systems. On the contrary. Compared to my Lyra olympos, the most 'romantic' sounding cartridge of the Lyra brand, the coral stone diamond sounds lusher albeit also somewhat less transparent and revealing. I love them both. I never heard the vintage Koetso cartridges so I do not know how the current stone body cartridges compare to these older versions. however, hardness is a word I would never associate with the stone body Koetsu cartridges I have heard so far.

Ron Resnick · May 10, 2015

Christian, Jack, Audiocrack,

Thank you for describing your experiences with these cartridges.

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