Koetsu Coralstone

mullard88

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Jun 5, 2010
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Hi rockitman,

I have both the Ortofon A90 and the Koetsu Coralstone (platinum magnet but regular cantilever). My impression is that all coralstones use platinum magnets and the buyer can choose between a regular or a diamond cantilever.

In my system, the Koetsu Coralstone is meatier over the entire frequency range and has this fantastic ability to conjure up the performers in their full presence inside the listening room. This can feel frighteningly realistic. There were several instances when I felt that I was actually watching a live performance.

My favorite setting for the Coralstone is to have the back end of the cartridge very slightly lower than the front and the tracking force I use is 2.4 grams (heavier than the 2.2 maximum recommended by the manufacturer).
 

mullard88

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Jun 5, 2010
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I just recalled an interesting "review" written on the Koetsu Coralstone. Go to wiredstate.com then to "Jadis' corner", then to "My Journey to the heavy side layer".
 

rockitman

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Sep 20, 2011
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Thanks Mullard. I am suprised that you use such a high tracking weight. In fact I can't find Koetsu's recommended tacking weight in the specs. The 1.9 weight was something A Porter recommended and seems to be in line with the value on Vinyl Engine's Cart database. I will try you settings however once I get more listening experience with it under my belt.
 
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JackD201

WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
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I run my Jade Platinum (which I acquired from Mullard88, incidentally :) ) light at 1.75. Doing so dispels the myth of Koetsus lacking air.
 

JackD201

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I'd be surprised if you did :) The stereotype is associated with the non-platinum wood bodies. :)
 

jadis

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Apr 28, 2010
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Congratulations, Rockitman. The Coralstone Platinum is a thing of beauty. I heard it a few years ago and it's truly a very musical cartridge with fast transients and a midrange that is lush and meaty, as Mullard88 would say.

As for the recommended tracking force, the info below suggests that it is around 1.8g to 2.0g. Long time ago, I determined that the best sound of my Koetsu Black was at 2.2g. Right now, I track my Koetsu Rosewood Signature at 1.8g.

http://store.acousticsounds.com/pdf/cartridge_comparison.pdf
 
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mullard88

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Jun 5, 2010
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Hi Christian,

The recommended tracking force was 1.8 to 2.2 grams. I was initially surprised that the tracking force I liked was higher than the recommended range. But in the end I trusted my ears. I have also tried the lower range which in my system resulted in more air. As I increased the tracking force, I got more presence. There was something else . . . at the lower tracking force, some singers sounded younger than I knew they were. I increased the tracking force until I matched the age of the singers and their voices to what I presume they should sound at their age. This is very subjective. There is a lot of parameters that you should experiment in with the Koetsu Coralstone. There is another write up in wiredstate.com that might interest you. Go to "mandy's wonders" then to "gift of the stone".

Sam
 

MylesBAstor

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Apr 20, 2010
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Christian: At what loading value are you running the Koetsu?
 

rockitman

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Hi Myles,

I started a 100 ohms, but a I find that 250 ohms opens things up a bit more (less damping). Of course the damping fluid in the tonearm can affect the load you choose. Seems to me, loading isn't a static spec deal. It's very system dependent. I'm running 250 now, but I may reduce the load the 320 to see how that sounds.
 

MylesBAstor

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Apr 20, 2010
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Hi Myles,

I started a 100 ohms, but a I find that 250 ohms opens things up a bit more (less damping). Of course the damping fluid in the tonearm can affect the load you choose. Seems to me, loading isn't a static spec deal. It's very system dependent. I'm running 250 now, but I may reduce the load the 320 to see how that sounds.

Well just was that Koestsu are maybe a hair more sensitive to loading than other cartridges. Or at least that's what I hear from Koetsu owners.

And yes loading can be system dependent but don't you think then loading's being used as a tone control then?

I think a lot of misunderstanding about loading had to do with the preamps of yesteryear not having enough gain. Ergo, when you loaded and dropped the output (remember it can 1/2 the cartridge output), many like me heard a loss of dynamics, top end and staging. Exactly like you'd hear with a tapped out power supply :)
 

garylkoh

WBF Technical Expert (Speakers & Audio Equipment)
Sep 6, 2010
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Well just was that Koestsu are maybe a hair more sensitive to loading than other cartridges. Or at least that's what I hear from Koetsu owners.

And yes loading can be system dependent but don't you think then loading's being used as a tone control then?

I think a lot of misunderstanding about loading had to do with the preamps of yesteryear not having enough gain. Ergo, when you loaded and dropped the output (remember it can 1/2 the cartridge output), many like me heard a loss of dynamics, top end and staging. Exactly like you'd hear with a tapped out power supply :)

Loading is also greatly dependent on the entire chain of cable from the cartridge pins to the input of the phono stage. I've been doing extensive research on that because my old phono stage (the FM Acoustics) had capacitative loading as well as resistive loading.

In the Lyra Atlas owner's manual, they recommend specific loading for specific capacitance on the tonearm cable. I'm building a playback chain for Winston's Kiseki Lapis Lazuli and designing it from the cartridge pins out. Turns out that the capacitance/inductance of the tonearm cable makes the biggest difference in loss of dynamics, top end and staging.
 

rockitman

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Sep 20, 2011
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I've been doing extensive research on that because my old phono stage (the FM Acoustics) had capacitative loading as well as resistive loading.

Hi Gary,

Have you experimented with capacitative loading on a moving coil cartridge ? Have you heard any sonic effects/differences with different capacitative loads ?

It was my understanding that capacitance has little effect on MC carts...:confused:
 

garylkoh

WBF Technical Expert (Speakers & Audio Equipment)
Sep 6, 2010
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Hi Gary,

Have you experimented with capacitative loading on a moving coil cartridge ? Have you heard any sonic effects/differences with different capacitative loads ?

It was my understanding that capacitance has little effect on MC carts...:confused:

It's all with moving coil cartridges.... and yes, there is quite a difference. Flicking the switches on the FM phono stage adds capacitance in picofarads, and it makes quite a sonic difference.
 

rockitman

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Sep 20, 2011
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Is there a cause and effect relationship between resistive load and capacitative load ? Currently I leave it at 100 capacitance. As you go up to a higher level (say 400), what do you notice ? My resistive load is 250 ohms.
 

MylesBAstor

Well-Known Member
Apr 20, 2010
11,236
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m
Loading is also greatly dependent on the entire chain of cable from the cartridge pins to the input of the phono stage. I've been doing extensive research on that because my old phono stage (the FM Acoustics) had capacitative loading as well as resistive loading.

In the Lyra Atlas owner's manual, they recommend specific loading for specific capacitance on the tonearm cable. I'm building a playback chain for Winston's Kiseki Lapis Lazuli and designing it from the cartridge pins out. Turns out that the capacitance/inductance of the tonearm cable makes the biggest difference in loss of dynamics, top end and staging.

My experience is that it's very MC cartridge specific when it comes to capacitive loading. I tried different cap loads (100pf - 200pf - 500pf - 1.5nf - 10nf - 20nf as well as resistive loading) using the Avid Pulsare with the Air Tight PC1, Lyra Titan i and ZYX Omega G. Only the Air Tight showed any sensitivity to cap loading. Of course it could also be the phono cable but tried the Kubala Sosna Emotion (a relatively low cap cable) and MIT phono cables.
 

Emil

New Member
Jul 5, 2012
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0
0
Is there a cause and effect relationship between resistive load and capacitative load ? Currently I leave it at 100 capacitance. As you go up to a higher level (say 400), what do you notice ? My resistive load is 250 ohms.
I found 100 Ohm, 100 pF, VTF 1,92-1,93g to give the best results. It is worth to use a high quality torque driver for the cartridge bolts. I hit the sweet spot at 0,3 Nm. You can try +- 0,025 Nm.

Your description of the sound is very accurate. Enjoy your cart.

Emil
 
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Bill Hart

Well-Known Member
May 11, 2012
2,683
174
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When i had the Steelhead, which had readily adjustable capacitance parameters from the front panel, i could not hear any meaningful difference on either the Titan i or the Airtight PC1. Whether that means i should just turn in my badge, or the tonearm cable (a captive one from Kuzma) made it less sensitive, I don't know. Kiseki cartridge, damn! That's a name i was struggling to remember recently, are they still around?
 

garylkoh

WBF Technical Expert (Speakers & Audio Equipment)
Sep 6, 2010
5,599
225
1,190
Seattle, WA
www.genesisloudspeakers.com
When i had the Steelhead, which had readily adjustable capacitance parameters from the front panel, i could not hear any meaningful difference on either the Titan i or the Airtight PC1. Whether that means i should just turn in my badge, or the tonearm cable (a captive one from Kuzma) made it less sensitive, I don't know. Kiseki cartridge, damn! That's a name i was struggling to remember recently, are they still around?

Yes - they are still around. This is a vintage piece: http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showt...ano-the-father&p=119788&viewfull=1#post119788

but Kiseki is being revived here: http://www.kiseki-eu.com/
 

Bill Hart

Well-Known Member
May 11, 2012
2,683
174
1,150
Can these cartridges be successfully 'refreshed' (whether that means 'retipped' or the suspension parts refreshed)? I only had one 're-do' on a cartridge that was years ago- it was a Van den Hul. It was not as costly as some of these beauties. I would love to have one if it could have a life beyond a couple thousand hours (with the payment of a 'refresh' to keep it going).
 

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