Absolute Sound is Rubbish

[NorthStar]

Perhaps I wasn't specific enough. I didn't mean surround sound recordings. I mean surround sound recordings specifically recorded and mastered to create a realistic sense of space in the center of all those sound sources, in the listener's room. What there are thousands of are surround sound recordings that put the listener in the middle of a space that's even more contrived than the average studio recording, a space where you're surrounded by the musicians and the horn section (or whatever) suddenly comes sweeping in over your left shoulder. I'm no more interested in those than I am in 3D movies that use the technology to get things to jump out of the screen at you.

If there are thousands of the other kinds of surround sound recordings, please point me to them. That would be worth building a 5-channel system.

Tim

-----Tim, at the last line of my sig it says Click ->
There are many SACD multichannel music recordings that were done with realistic taste there, check it out!
...And buy some, and experiment with a multichannel setup, and evolve.

And if you don't, just don't dismiss it.

Best means to always search for a higher learning. ...Experimenting with the NEW.

** Ask Amir, ask Steve, ask Bruce, ask Roger, ask Kal, ...

[Kal Rubinson]

Perhaps I wasn't specific enough. I didn't mean surround sound recordings. I mean surround sound recordings specifically recorded and mastered to create a realistic sense of space in the center of all those sound sources, in the listener's room.

We are now veering wildly off-topic but I want no part of a recording that puts me "in the center of all those sound sources." My goal is to achieve a simulation, as accurately as possible, of the original and traditional audience experience at a musical event. This means that, with few exceptions, all the performers are in front of me and the ambiance of that event surrounds me. There are many multichannel recordings that do this. Admittedly, the issue of the available repertoire is a problem for many people but it is not (so much) for me.

Kal

[rockitman]

I would appreciate it if you did not repeat ad nauseam you disdain for two-channel audio. We all know it's not perfect and we acknowledge that. Change your tagline and your attitude if you want to change how people feel about you. Starting threads like this one only increases your need for buying asbestos underwear before you sit down at your computer and type "Absolute Sound is Rubbish."

Multi channel is good for movies...enough said. I never recall an amplified concert that wasn't two channel and even perhaps mono via two left/right PA arrays. I have been able to closely replicate live sound when recording amplified events in front of the mixing console. I don't think I'm missing much not seeing Tom' s highly rated municipal band.

[Kal Rubinson]

I never recall an amplified concert that wasn't two channel and even perhaps mono via two left/right PA arrays.

Emphasis added. Even so, it is hard to believe that those sources would sound the same in a hall and in a stadium.........................if anyone cares.

[tomelex]

Multi channel is good for movies...enough said. I never recall an amplified concert that wasn't two channel and even perhaps mono via two left/right PA arrays. I have been able to closely replicate live sound when recording amplified events in front of the mixing console. I don't think I'm missing much not seeing Tom' s highly rated municipal band.

Its about hearing it vs a recording of it, and it is unamplified. Agreed that a recording of an amplified band can sound more like what one hears since the speakers are making all the sounds you hear, but never was that my arguement.

The band is fine and fun, and its not about seeing, its about hearing, I got no dog in the hunt as far as the esoteric qualities of the greatness or lack thereof of the local munici band.

Tom

[cjfrbw]

Several years ago I had my system optimized for 7.2 channel surround.

I am not a great fan of SACD. However, my conclusion at the time was the method of choice for listening to classical music was a good recording in a good hall recorded with multi channel surround.

I let the optimized surround set up go to seed by breaking parts of it down a bit over the years, because I don't care so much about home theater sound as long as it is adequate and just did not listen to classical that much, spent all my time listening to two channel vinyl, mostly jazz, rock and pop.

However, if I were a classical nut, I would certainly re-optimize for multi channel SACD and digital and listen that way by preference and seek a wider collection of multi channel classical recordings.

[NorthStar]

---I have been experimenting my entire life with Stereo, three channels and up to eleven channels (including two subwoofers).

Stereo (& Mono) listening is what I'm most used to (over 40 years; from 1955 at Dad's home).
I started multichannel back in 1970 or so when I first built my own back surround speaker! No bull!

It's all about SPACE, the venues where we are listening, be it Live or reproduced by the mediums.
...The entire audio chain too.

Stereo listening can be very spooky, as it can create a credible illusion, with ambiance and space all around you.

Multichannel listening requires more precision, better balancing act between all the channel speakers surrounding you.
And I agree with all of you: putting instruments at the side or behind you is not realistic, it's for the "grab".

DSP Concert Hall or Jazz Club effects from Yamaha requires constant readjustments of the parameters for EACH individual song! Not fun at all!

But with great multichannel recordings from some SACDs (Classical music, & some Jazz ones), and few DVD-Audios (not many of those though), and some Blu-ray concert music videos or audios or both, and with proper POSITIONING of all equal TIMBRE speakers, and with a good PROGRAM (TIME & FREQUENCY RESPONSE EQualization & KALibration ) in a well acoustically treated room, it'll get you even closer to the real thing. ...Like at a live Jazz Club, or at a live Classical Concert Hall, and with live performers (orchestra & all that jazz).

Other type of music, like Electronica, New Age, Alternative, Rock&Roll, Heavy Metal, Punk, Rap, Western, Reggae, etc. are different kind of animals. ...Like Pink Floyd. They are musical genres for the impact, and not for the realistic ambiance with true classical first-class emotions. They are from a totally different level.
And even Jazz is very very cool alternative. It is the music of the deep drug addicts (no offense meant here), and of the underground experimenters. It vibes to a different beat, just like Blues has its own 'effervescence', or Raw Love and Despair essence.

You gotta feel first what's your own true and deep style. And perhaps you have several, like me, and you gotto recalibrate for each one (automatic brain metamorphosis). And from that you build your setup, and according to your own goals; which can be as varied as ABSOLUTE ULTIMUM to SIMPLICITY and PLEASURABILITY.
And from one end to the other (hi ends), they encompass similar attributes (auditive happiness), reaching similar goals for different individuals. ...And even according to their different financial resources, and social status.

You do, or you don't. You had, or you hadn't. You play, or you play not.
But we all listen, more or less.

At the end, it has no end. It is always revolving, surrounding us from all directions.
But the center stage is well in front of us.
And for the performers we are their center stage.

End of this line.

[NorthStar]

---If I can relive my life differently, what would I change?
Not a single thing! ...And for me that is the absolute. ...As 'rubbish' as it may sound.

[Gregadd]

I understand you Tomelex.

We ask you what equipment you have ,not to ridicule it, but to answer these questions. If you cannot hear the characteristic is it because you are incapable of hearing it; your equipment is incapable of producing it;or the characteristic does not exist.

We are suggesting perhaps your equipment is incapaple of producing it. I owned both Hafler preamap and amp.

So looking at your equipment I come to the following conclusion.

I think your brain requires measurements, but your soul craves SET'S. Smile.

Shining a light on the shortcomings of stereo? Can you concede that's just a tad presumptious[presumptuous]?

[Phelonious Ponk]

-----Tim, at the last line of my sig it says Click ->
There are many SACD multichannel music recordings that were done with realistic taste there, check it out!
...And buy some, and experiment with a multichannel setup, and evolve.

And if you don't, just don't dismiss it.

Best means to always search for a higher learning. ...Experimenting with the NEW.

** Ask Amir, ask Steve, ask Bruce, ask Roger, ask Kal, ...

I'm not dismissing it Bob, but I've done these searches before, and there is little there for me. I like some classical just fine, but it represents maybe 2% of my collection. When someone out there starts remastering the great live and "live in studio" jazz, rock, blues, folk, country and pop recordings to surround with the objective of creating a better ambience and better in-room response (due to the much higher % of direct vs reflected sound), I'll personally develop an interest. When I can get Live At Folsom Prison, It's Too Late To Stop Now, The Legendary Prestige Sessions, Allman Brothers Live At the Fillmore, Waiting For Columbus, The Rolling Thunder Review, Waltz For Betty...and when I know that there is enough of a market for the format that I can expect more great live records to be remastered to it every month and new releases to be available on well-used multi-channel instead of surround sound parlor tricks, that's when an investment in the format, followed by an on-going investment in the media to support it, will be worth it for me. If there's enough audiophile and classical material out there to make it worth it to you now, congratulations. Enjoy. The overwhelming majority of the music I want, old and new, is available or coming out only as 2-channel and redbook, or downloads of even lower resolution. And it really looks like it's going to stay that way. So I will accept the limitations, try to make the most of the capabilities, and enjoas y the music.

YMMV.

Tim