Which amp or amps are darTZeel owners using with their NHB-18NS preamp

rugyboogie

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The synergy between the darTZeel amp and preamp is undeniable.
For me to swing the coin for both units was not in the cards last year.
Therefore I purchased the NHB-18S to use with my existing amp.
In my case I am using a Wyetech Topaz SET 211 A for a poweramp with great results.
Would like to hear from others darTZeel preamp owners who are using a non darTZeel amp in their system.
 

asiufy

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I've tested a number of amps with my DarTZeel pre:

1. DarTZeel integrated: it's what I'm using regularly, while I wait for the delivery of the DarTZeel amp. Hooked through Zeel connection.
2. Kreel 402: second best I've heard here. Close to DarTZeel's presence and transparency, with a lot more punch.
3. Halcro dm88: not good. It's a sort of "hollow" sounding amp. For all its power, the low-end is not even as good as the DTZ integrated.
4. Audiopax Maggiore 100: the new 100w SET amp from brazilian company. Good, but too many quirks, and still too veiled for my tastes (I got hooked on the extreme transparency of the DTZ gear)
5. VTL 450mk3: Excellent, but also very veiled and blurry, compared to the solid states DTZ and Krell.

Since I received the new Sonus faber Amati Futura, the best combination I got was when I hooked the Krell to the LF ports, and the DTZ integrated to the HF. Of course, it's overkill, but an incredibly good overkill :)


alexandre
 

microstrip

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I have owned the Dartzeel combo for a few months and moved to another different setup because the Dart amplifier was not powerful enough for my speakers and, after listening to the combo, I could not be pleased with the sound of any of the many amplifiers I tried with the 18NS :( . If the monoblocks could cost one fifth of the current price my problem would have been easily solved. :)
 

asiufy

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microstrip,

That's what I'm afraid will happen with me, once my DarTZeel amp. arrives. The integrated is hitting high temperatures and shutting off, and it seems the amp. will do the same.
The monoblocks are, unfortunately, way too expensive, thus my current search for a powerful amp. to match the DarTZeel pre-amp...
May I ask what you got to replace the DTZ amp?


alexandre
 

LL21

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Hi Alexandre

if the new SF speaker impedance is anything like the older homage series, i think your current combination makes sense...krell on bass and dtz on HF/Mids...i thought there was some question about some of the DTZ amps and difficult loads. i used to have SF STrads and it was a 2.7ohm load thru a good part of the spectrum.

i have listen to the Dart pre with different amps before. concur with the 'challenge' people have expressed here and probably agree with your observations regarding Krell being reasoanble match. taking a complete guess, i wonder what dartzeel pre would sound like with either Boulder or (the very newest) Bryston SST squared. For a fraction of the cost, i have heard the Bryston 28BSST monos (1000 watts/channel) described as superbly powerful, effortless and slightly sweet in tonality (a term i have rarely if ever heard used in the context of Bryston...but that comment is very, very consistent.) and the monos really cost a fraction of the Dartzeel monos. USD16K? As for Boulder, its cleanliness and linearity might possibly work with your pre.

pls post any updates and good luck.
 

microstrip

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microstrip,

That's what I'm afraid will happen with me, once my DarTZeel amp. arrives. The integrated is hitting high temperatures and shutting off, and it seems the amp. will do the same.
The monoblocks are, unfortunately, way too expensive, thus my current search for a powerful amp. to match the DarTZeel pre-amp...
May I ask what you got to replace the DTZ amp?


alexandre

At the time I decided to go with the Audio Research REF5 and phono REF2, later I moved to the Anniversary preamplifier.

There is an amplifier that I have not listened to, but has triggered my attention - the Classe Audio CA600. For me the classic problem of the great Classe amplifiers of the past (M1000's and similar) was that their performance depended a lot on the temperature and they needed several hours playing time before sounding their best, but the CA600 has an intelligent cooling system.
 

cmarin

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I've had a dart pre/amp (NHB-18NS pre/the latest version of the NHB108 stereo amp) combo for a few years now, and feared, when I recently upgraded to the Magico M5 speakers, that the dart amp would not be able to keep up with the power hungry M5s. I tried both the Jeff Rowland 312, the Bryston 28B SST2, and the Audio Research 610Ts with the dart pre. Of course at this level the sonic differences are slight but I found the dart preferable to both the Jeff Rowland and Bryston on all counts. My room measures approximately 25'x18'x10' and as Herve the dart designer assured me, I've never had the dart run out of steam even at ear splitting volumes. The 610Ts are special though. And although not as (for lack of a better word) transparent as the dart, the tube sound and the soundstage of the 610Ts was very seductive. I ended up keeping both and added the Audio Research ref 5 pre to the 610Ts. As an aside, I should mention that I recently installed a stillpoints rack to my system and it brought the AR and dart systems to an entirely different level of performance. Best of luck in your search.
 

LL21

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That is a great post...thanks for that. very interesting, as i have not had an opportunity to listen to the 28B SST2 myself and have always been curious to do so. I have heard the NHB108 and your pre as well, as well as the 610Ts/ARC 5. very helpful feedback.

could you be more specific about what the stillpoints did and where you use it? (on the pre or the amp...or both)? thanks for some guidance here, as i am contemplating some isolation for my pre, transport but also amp...and have wondered if a 200lb amp really benefits from something like stillpoints. (my choices are HRS, Stillpoints or Wave Kinetics).
 

Steve Williams

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Just got back from The California Audio Show and FWIW, ARC just released their newest Reference Amp the Ref250 which not only replaces the Ref210T but so ALSO the Ref610T. Although not as powerful as the 610T, ARC feels that the 250 is the best amp they have ever built.

BTW, the amp was very good in the room in which it was played
 

cmarin

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Hoydelee21, I've got one stillpoint (3 level) rack that holds the dart pre, audio research ref 5 pre and the dart amp. The 610Ts and playback designs MPS5 sit on individual stillpoint three-point stands. I didn't perform any experiments to isolate the effect of the stillpoint stands/racks. And I can't tell you that what I heard is objective or measurable. But I can say that to my ears and to those who had previously heard my system prior to the stillpoints, the soundstage is larger and more three dimensional, and the bass is significantly more powerful and better articulated than with my previous finite elemente stands.
 

microstrip

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Just got back from The California Audio Show and FWIW, ARC just released their newest Reference Amp the Ref250 which not only replaces the Ref210T but so ALSO the Ref610T. Although not as powerful as the 610T, ARC feels that the 250 is the best amp they have ever built.

BTW, the amp was very good in the room in which it was played

Steve,
Are you using the word "replaces" in the full sense or in the sense of "surpasses"? Aren't they going to have a REF650 or equivalent?
 

LL21

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Hoydelee21, I've got one stillpoint (3 level) rack that holds the dart pre, audio research ref 5 pre and the dart amp. The 610Ts and playback designs MPS5 sit on individual stillpoint three-point stands. I didn't perform any experiments to isolate the effect of the stillpoint stands/racks. And I can't tell you that what I heard is objective or measurable. But I can say that to my ears and to those who had previously heard my system prior to the stillpoints, the soundstage is larger and more three dimensional, and the bass is significantly more powerful and better articulated than with my previous finite elemente stands.
Thanks...that is very helpful.
 

monya

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Jul 22, 2011
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I'm in the opposite camp here. Would like to know which pre folk use with the NHB 108?
I bought the power amp almost 4 years ago when it was half the price as it is now in the UK. Couldn't afford the pre anyway and used a cd player direct into the power amp. Then bought a Karan pre which has been pretty good. However, last month treated myself to the ARC ref 5 which seems to match up well. Does anyone else use a different pre?
 

LL21

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Hi Monya,

Nice Pre. I have heard it with several amps, and liked it quite a bit...and in a way that i could not somehow get to like the Ref 3 in spite of how technically accomplished i agreed that the the Ref 3 was (and still is). Felt more musical, with less grain, more open/dynamic and richer at the same time.
 

Bruce B

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The only thing holding me back on this pre/amp is that it sounds best utilizing the 50 ohm tap. Does anyone know of any manufacturer using the same interface for their pre/amp?
 

microstrip

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The only thing holding me back on this pre/amp is that it sounds best utilizing the 50 ohm tap. Does anyone know of any manufacturer using the same interface for their pre/amp?

You can use any non balanced amplifier in the 50 ohm mode - just use a T BNC adapter with a 50 ohm BNC terminator and a BNC - adapter. I have successfully used the Dartzeel preamplifier with a Krell amplifier - it sounded much better used in this way using the long Dartzeel cables than using the balanced output.
 

asiufy

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lloydelee21,

The Krell (402e) was apparently too much of a good thing :) On some bass heavy music, at high volumes, there was a severe mismatch between the two amps, and all I got was bass... So the Krell is out... But the good news is that my DTZ amp (108) should arrive in about a week.
We just got Boulder distribution here, and I'm waiting for the dealer to get them in. I'm also trying to get a pair of Goldmund Telos 350 monoblocks.
We don't have Bryston here, but what I've heard about them, they're far less transparent than what I'm used to, at this point...

thanks!
alexandre
 

LL21

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Hi Alexandre,

i just heard your speakers for the first time...i am quite familiar with SF having owned Guarneris and STrads...but not since new ownership took over. the Futura is a different speaker...extraordinarily impressive. on iniital listening i found the technical linearity of the speaker and quickness seemed much improved. But they did manage to maintiain the SF voicing. i really like the speaker....the bass is more prominent and deeper than either of the 2 prior Amatis. So i hear you on your comments regarding bass...i thought about speaker placement but i imagine you already considered that when using the Krell.

Plus, i have not found Krell to work as well with the Homage series as the rest of the SF lines. For SF, i have found i enjoy using Gryphon amps, high quality tubes. pls keep us posted on your progress! enjoy!
 

asiufy

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lloydelee21,

Yes, the Futuras are like you described. Mine are still in the break in process, but the bass is already giving me trouble... I'll try to put some bass traps on the corner to see if I can clean things up a little bit and improve the midbass definition...
Oh, yesterday I finally got the DarTZeel amp! It's plugged in now, also breaking in nicely... Been playing it non-stop, including some very loud sessions, and it hasn't shut down yet, so I'm confident it'll be able to keep it together with the Futuras :)


alexandre
 

LL21

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Sounds great! Good luck!!! I think these Futuras will respond well to good speaker placement. Good luck and enjoy! pls keep us posted.
 

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