Periphery Outer Ring Clamps

Satch

New Member
May 16, 2010
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I've been thinking about using an outer ring clamp on my modest Scheu Analog Cello turntable for some of my albums that are slightly warped.

The only outer ring clamps I'd ever seen were on the VPI systems. I wondered if a VPI outer ring clamp would work on my TT. Then I was reading a thread about VPI TT's and I think it was audioguy posted about getting an outer ring and center weight from TTWeights Audio.

I checked out TTWeights.com and found a 600 gram solid copper nickel plated outer ring that I like. I have a VPI center weight that works well on my TT.

Any thoughts about outer ring clamps?

Ray
 

ack

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May 6, 2010
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Clearaudio has one too. I use the VPI on my Aries 3 and it works as advertised, but does add quite a bit of weight which has me spinning the platter before I fire up the motor, as it would struggle too much on its own.
 

MylesBAstor

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Apr 20, 2010
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I don't know about the interchangability of ring clamps among turntables. But I consider the use of either vacuum or ring clamps an absolute necessity for a turntable. There are clearly tradeoffs between the two approaches; Harry Weisfeld once told me that the ring clamp gives better bass while vacuum gives better upper octaves.

One consideration that few people talk about tough with clamping devices is the absolute necessity to keep your platter spotless! For instance, Versa Dynamics and John Bicht found out years ago that dirt trapped between the platter and LP could damage the LP. To counter this effect, John incorporated a very thin material to protect the LP. But the same effect rules today and if you don't keep the platter clean, one may find the reverse side of your cherished albums becoming noisy.
 

vinylphilemag

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Apr 30, 2010
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One consideration that few people talk about tough with clamping devices is the absolute necessity to keep your platter spotless! For instance, Versa Dynamics and John Bicht found out years ago that dirt trapped between the platter and LP could damage the LP. To counter this effect, John incorporated a very thin material to protect the LP. But the same effect rules today and if you don't keep the platter clean, one may find the reverse side of your cherished albums becoming noisy.

Great point, which allows me to segue into one of my turntable pet peeves: dust covers. WTF don't more manufacturers include some sort of dust cover with their products (removable, of course)? I like the soft vinyl covers SME provides best: the do the job well, and don't take up much room and are easy to store when the TT is in use because they're soft. Getting back to your point, platters would be a lot easier to keep clean if the TT had a dustcover!
 
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MylesBAstor

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Great point, which allows me to segue into one of my turntable pet peeves: dust covers. WTF don't more manufacturers include some sort of dust cover with their products (removable, of course)? I like the soft vinyl covers SME provides best: the do the job well, and don't take up much room and are easy to store when the TT is in use because they're soft. Getting back to your point, platters would be a lot easier to keep clean if the TT had a dustcover!

Hey try cohabitating with three kitties :)

For my Technics reel to reel, I actually have an original Technics soft cover as well as hard cover. I tend to use the soft more often since protects more of the deck from kitties hair :(

That said there are some nice custom dust covers available from Gingko and Dedicated Audio for many tables. In fact, HW will refer many to Vu for covers. Vu actually made a very nice one for my digital transport too.
 
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Satch

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May 16, 2010
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Thanks guys,

My TT is an international mutt. German motor, platter and base. British arm (RB 250). Italian cart (Blue Note).

Other tweaks for this rig; Pro-Ject isolation stand and I found a Ginko dust cover for a Marantz TT that fits perfect. All this sits on the top tier of a three tier Adona rack. Oh yeah, I also have a VPI center weight and a VPI 16.5 R.C.M.

I get a lot of pure musical bliss out of this rig for an entry level turntable. I know I'm getting close to the point of diminishing returns as far as tweaks are concerned, but for now I think I might try out a ring clamp and some more choice vinyl. It's going to be a while before I can afford the SME 20/2 Performance Package. :)

Ray
 

jcmusic

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May 20, 2010
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The outer ring clamp works great for warped records but, as far as the sound goes Hmmm!!! Not really sure about that more listening will be required. I have borrowed a friends VPI outer ring before I buy one to try on my Scoutmaster TT.

Jay
 

MylesBAstor

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Listen to it more Jay! What clamp are you using with the ring clamp?
 

MylesBAstor

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The one that came with my TT, the VPI screw on one.

Jay

That'll make a difference too. The metal one is much better with the ring clamps-though there are other clamps around that give a different sonic perspective on the recording.
 

MylesBAstor

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Apr 20, 2010
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Myles,
I did some more listening with the ring and could hear the difference it made, now you are saying that the clamp makes a difference as well???

Jay

Quite a difference.
 

joe1515

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May 26, 2010
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I have the VPI Classic Table with the HRX Center Weight, my next upgrade is the periphery ring clamp. I was wondering if I should consider the TTWeights outer rings. I know better records.com recommends TTWeights, they said they like the sound better.

Joe
 
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jcmusic

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May 20, 2010
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Just Outside New Orleans, La.
It's been along time now but, getting back to this I have now had both the SS Clamp and outer Ring for quite a while. There is a noticable difference in sound quality when using both of these.
 

BobM

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Feb 5, 2014
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I don't have a periphery ring, but I did experiment with center clamps on my VPI a while ago.

basic 2 piece VPI clamp - nothing special, does the job
1 piece VPI Delrin - this is the one I prefer and have been using for quite some time
Bren1 - better than the 2 piece, but I hear a bit of smearing compared to the Delrin
TTweights - similar to the Bren but a bit more added weight to the bottom end

I haven't tried the heavier VPI clamps. Overall I think the 1 piece Delrin clamps the vinyl to the platter better than a plain heavy-weight does, at least that's my theory based on what I heard.
 

TBone

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Nov 15, 2012
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silly advice when one consider the "big" tradeoffs ...

too big in my experience ...

But I consider the use of either vacuum or ring clamps an absolute necessity for a turntable. There are clearly tradeoffs between the two approaches; Harry Weisfeld once told me that the ring clamp gives better bass while vacuum gives better upper octaves.

Ring clamps may in fact help better couple a LP to a platter, especially with non-LPs ... but consider the problem ... even if the manufacturing of these ring-clamps can consistently produce perfectly balanced rings, it's still near-impossible to achieve proper platter balance during ACTUAL setup (placing ring on & off the platter will change the balance every time). Some may consider a small amount of platter balance error inconsequential, but from what I've experienced, they'd be mistaken, especially with heavier platters. And consider another scenario, the extra weight w/non-balance rotation may cause premature bearing wear ... at the very least, additional bearing noise.(*)

Vacuum platters may offer even bigger "tradeoffs". Vacuum platters must seal the entire LP to the platter or noise will occur. And certain bearing designs w/vacuum players are compromised affairs.

So ... neither can be considered even remotely close to "an absolute necessity", as proven by countless traditional designs.

tb1

ps:(*) the additional extra weight may also cause the motor to produce additional torque, which means far greater potential additional noise. Add that to the additional potential bearing noise, and the sonic "trade-off" becomes that much costlier.
 

rockitman

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I have found no tradeoffs vacuum (TechDAS) which is the best vacuum implementation to date with no ripple and the outer ring on my CA master Innovation. Not worried about bearing wear on a ceramic magnetic bearing that levitates the platter. Of course some table designs may not be a good match for outer rings.
 

JackD201

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Same here with my Air Force One's VHD and formerly my HRX's PR. The only problem with the HRX's ring was I almost dropped it on my toe. That would have been a disaster. It left a nasty dent on the hardwood floor.

The plus that isn't talked about much……go to town with huge discounts on warped but otherwise NM records. That's what I did! :D

Personally, whenever I see how steady the cartridge is when tracking and hearing the effects of a suspension working on a "road" as perfect as can be hoped, there is no going back for me. Imagine all the output potential wasted on LF oscillations. Subjectively, engaging VHD is like growing extra 10ths of a millivolt on my MC carts.
 

rockitman

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Sep 20, 2011
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Same here with my Air Force One's VHD and formerly my HRX's PR. The only problem with the HRX's ring was I almost dropped it on my toe. That would have been a disaster. It left a nasty dent on the hardwood floor.

The plus that isn't talked about much……go to town with huge discounts on warped but otherwise NM records. That's what I did! :D

Personally, whenever I see how steady the cartridge is when tracking and hearing the effects of a suspension working on a "road" as perfect as can be hoped, there is no going back for me. Imagine all the output potential wasted on LF oscillations. Subjectively, engaging VHD is like growing extra 10ths of a millivolt on my MC carts.
Totally agree.
 

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