Defective Vinyl Pressings

Bill Hart

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May 11, 2012
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In response to another thread, I asked whether there was a place here to identify 'bad pressings' of currently issued vinyl. Myles suggested that I might start a thread. The issue here is not necessarily to discuss bad sonics, per se (I guess that might be more than one thread), but currently issued records that are defective.
Here goes:
 

Bill Hart

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What a brilliant idea! :)
I have purchased two copies of the Black Dub album (it's pretty good for those of you who like raw sounding, but well produced, recordings of a band that has more interest to me than Black Keys, and a good female vocalist, but is funk/rock/rootsy/). Both copies suffer identical warps- the first disc in the package (it is a two record set) has a mild warp but the second disc, which is pressed only on one side, is profoundly warped. Interestingly, both copies I bought are the same in this respect. I bought these from Amazon, whose delivery and return policies are terrific and of course, they refunded my money. I ordered another copy from a different vendor who actually agreed to open the record (it is back-ordered) and check for warping before he ships. (And no it's not 'Better Records' and I'm not paying more than retail).

Oh, and while we are at it, the 45 rpm Diana Krall Live in Paris- nasty stitching noise on side A, first cut- record went back to Chad. I've had this experience with a few of the Diana Krall 'heavy' vinyl records. Anybody else?
 

Johnny Vinyl

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I've been lucky I suppose in the last few years as I've not come across any true defective vinyl. On some there may may a slight warp, but nothing that affects playback or warrants a return. I have had issues with sonics however.
 

MylesBAstor

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Now I'm not one to return LPs for any old pop or tick but I think what raises one's hackles is when *premium* priced vinyl is defective. I really don't bother nowadays with the other cheaper albums to avoid just this problem. On Audiogon and practically every audio forum known to mankind, there are threads devoted to issues with all, but especially $10 albums. It's unfortunately endemic to the $10 alums because they're made like schlock eg. Mastering and pressing.

Scroll down for a quick definition on groove stitching.

http://www.classicrecords.com/blog/

Then there are host of other issues such pinch and edge warps, records cot off center, orange peel, scuffing, etc. that affect playback and the noise level of the album. One that I've also noticed is what looks like light or darker blotches on the record surface.

For the possibly dumbest AES paper of all time, see http://www.aes.org/e-lib/browse.cfm?elib=2150.

That said, I've had the best success with the MM Jazz reissues.

Chad's esp. The earlier Prestige/Pablo/Contemporary occasionally had issues. I could never get a quiet 45 rpm Chet Baker.

Classic's albums suffered from a host of issues pre-eminently with records cut off center and dish bowl sized warps. My Simon and Garfunkel could have doubled asva fruit dish. It didn't seem that Q/C was high on their list. (needless to say, I was not high up on Hobson's list). I actually had one renowned reviewer tell me I was crazy and the only one experiencing these problems- only to then turn around three months later pen an article on all the problems he was encountering with Classic pressings. Curious to say the least! I count myself lucky now that I use a rim clamp that makes these issues a thing of the past and consider this or vacuum a mandatory item for record playback.

Pure Pleasure was also hit or miss in the beginning with issues ranging from groove stitching or groove narrowing. PP also made me insane by packaging their LPs in paper sleeves! How cheap was that? It would have cost them what a quarter more?.I often wondered if anyone at PP listened to the test pressing-for after all that's why they're made-not as it seems to sell at a higher price to audiophiles. I find this *religion* and hype surrounding test pressings somewhat curious since they're not necessarily better sounding -and actually are often worse sounding -than the final product. That's because test pressings are often made at the beginning of the day's run before the presses have fully heated up. But luckily it seems that PP has finally got their act together and the couple of albums I've purchased have been perfect.

Speakers Corner LPs have in my experience been of a consistently high quality (interesting that I think they and MMJ use Pallas?) and the sound has gotten better over the years. Didn't think all that much of their original Mercury reissues.

The other label that comes to mind for their excellent quality is MOFI. Whatever you think of the musical choices, sound (some are better than others), their product is top notch!

Gosh who ever thought we'd be talking about LPs in 2012. I think we owe a debt of gratitude to Chad and Mike especially for keeping vinyl alive for us and even showing other entrepreneurs that they could start and run successful record companies!
 
Last edited:

MylesBAstor

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Bill Hart

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May 11, 2012
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Sorry must have has a brain fart. :(

Just fkin whicha. I didn't invent the term, but i was using it alliteratively to describe the sound before realizing that it was a term of art.
You know, Chad has done alot of great things. I have had issues with his service, though, and his return policies are not as good as Amazon's, which are really the best in any industry.
For alot of people, the reissues are really the only alternative, given the cost these days of original pressings. And yes, if the new pressings aren't defective, they are often quieter. You and I grew up in the vinyl age, and can mentally filter out the surface noise (with RCA, you sorta have to). But, if you get a remaster that doesn't wreak havoc with an otherwise good recording, and is pressed without defects, the quiet can be amazing. I am absolutely blown away by the 45 rpm version of Junior Wells HooDoo Man Blues 'in the wee wee hours.' Have you listened to it? There aren't that many great old blues albums that are well recorded to begin with, and this song just presses that button for me.
Best,
Bill
 

rockitman

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Sep 20, 2011
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Classic Records Dave Brubeck "Time Out" 33 RPM. Tried 3 different copies all pressed out of center.
Now there is a 45 rpm Quality Records pressing by Analogue Productions. I suspect it will be the go to reference re-issue.
 

Bill Hart

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May 11, 2012
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Are the Classic records that Chad is currently selling old stock? Or has he started pressing under that label, since I gather he bought the label, as well as the inventory? (perhaps I'm mistaken in that regard).
 

MylesBAstor

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Apr 20, 2010
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Are the Classic records that Chad is currently selling old stock? Or has he started pressing under that label, since I gather he bought the label, as well as the inventory? (perhaps I'm mistaken in that regard).

OS. But the best prices are from www.themusic.com though stock is a little limited. Still some must have titles left and can recommend if people want.
 

MylesBAstor

Well-Known Member
Apr 20, 2010
11,238
81
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New York City
Now I'm not one to return LPs for any old pop or tick but I think what raises one's hackles is when *premium* priced vinyl is defective. I really don't bother nowadays with the other cheaper albums to avoid just this problem. On Audiogon and practically every audio forum known to mankind, there are threads devoted to issues with all, but especially $10 albums. It's unfortunately endemic to the $10 alums because they're made like schlock eg. Mastering and pressing.

Scroll down for a quick definition on groove stitching.

http://www.classicrecords.com/blog/

Then there are host of other issues such pinch and edge warps, records cot off center, orange peel, scuffing, etc. that affect playback and the noise level of the album. One that I've also noticed is what looks like light or darker blotches on the record surface.

For the possibly dumbest AES paper of all time, see http://www.aes.org/e-lib/browse.cfm?elib=2150.

That said, I've had the best success with the MM Jazz reissues.

Chad's esp. The earlier Prestige/Pablo/Contemporary occasionally had issues. I could never get a quiet 45 rpm Chet Baker.

Classic's albums suffered from a host of issues pre-eminently with records cut off center and dish bowl sized warps. My Simon and Garfunkel could have doubled asva fruit dish. It didn't seem that Q/C was high on their list. (needless to say, I was not high up on Hobson's list). I actually had one renowned reviewer tell me I was crazy and the only one experiencing these problems- only to then turn around three months later pen an article on all the problems he was encountering with Classic pressings. Curious to say the least! I count myself lucky now that I use a rim clamp that makes these issues a thing of the past and consider this or vacuum a mandatory item for record playback.

Pure Pleasure was also hit or miss in the beginning with issues ranging from groove stitching or groove narrowing. PP also made me insane by packaging their LPs in paper sleeves! How cheap was that? It would have cost them what a quarter more?.I often wondered if anyone at PP listened to the test pressing-for after all that's why they're made-not as it seems to sell at a higher price to audiophiles. I find this *religion* and hype surrounding test pressings somewhat curious since they're not necessarily better sounding -and actually are often worse sounding -than the final product. That's because test pressings are often made at the beginning of the day's run before the presses have fully heated up. But luckily it seems that PP has finally got their act together and the couple of albums I've purchased have been perfect.

Speakers Corner LPs have in my experience been of a consistently high quality (interesting that I think they and MMJ use Pallas?) and the sound has gotten better over the years. Didn't think all that much of their original Mercury reissues.

The other label that comes to mind for their excellent quality is MOFI. Whatever you think of the musical choices, sound (some are better than others), their product is top notch!

Gosh who ever thought we'd be talking about LPs in 2012. I think we owe a debt of gratitude to Chad and Mike especially for keeping vinyl alive for us and even showing other entrepreneurs that they could start and run successful record companies!

Oh and I should also add that I've found all of Ying Tan's ORG 45 rpms pressings to be exemplary.
 

rockitman

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Sep 20, 2011
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So what does this stitching issue sound like ? Obvious distortion in one or both channels or is it much more subtle like a loss of treble (dulling of sound), ect.
 

Bill Hart

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May 11, 2012
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174
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Oh and I should also add that I've found all of Ying Tan's ORG 45 rpms pressings to be exemplary.
Yep, except i think a couple of the Diana Krall's, including Look of Love and Live in Paris, on 200 g 45 had my favorite problem. And were returned. Still haven't replaced Live in Paris, which is a great performance.
 

Bill Hart

Well-Known Member
May 11, 2012
2,683
174
1,150
So what does this stitching issue sound like ? Obvious distortion in one or both channels or is it much more subtle like a loss of treble (dulling of sound), ect.
Rocket- it sounds like really bad mistracking, or something so gummed up the grooves that you are hearing a nasty distortion. It does not go away with cleaning, and the records, at least to the naked eye, don't look damaged, but the cause, as I understand it, is damage to the grooves because, in effect, the stamper is not lifting cleanly off the grooves- almost like the waffle got stuck on the top part of the griddle and got chewed up in the process. Sorry for the crude analogy- ready to be corrected if I got the technical part wrong, but that's what it sounds like. And it is unlistenable.
 

MylesBAstor

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Apr 20, 2010
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New York City
Yep, except i think a couple of the Diana Krall's, including Look of Love and Live in Paris, on 200 g 45 had my favorite problem. And were returned. Still haven't replaced Live in Paris, which is a great performance.

Yes I didn't buy them since the recordings were digital and already had them on CD or SACD.
 

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