I may have entered the "Dark Side" as I have purchased Mark Seaton Catalyst Speakers

audioguy

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Apr 20, 2010
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Near Atlanta, GA but not too near!
I have been struggling with replacing my beloved Dunlavys with another speaker for a number of reasons: Age (mine and the speakers!!), availability of drivers, and audio upgraditis. After listening to Maggies and Selah Line arrays and a few others, I have made the decision to purchase Mark Seaton Calalysts tri-amped powered speakers.

This decision flies in the face of every normal (and reasonable) speaker decision process I have ever undertaken.

* I am buying sight unseen (actually that would be sound unheard) where I traditionally have spent hours and hours and hours auditioning speakers

* I have never purchased a speaker for my primary stereo system that was not considered full range and these cut off at about 40hz (ish)

* I have never purchased a speaker that needed a stand (given that these are 38 inches tall and weigh about 130 pounds, they are a bit larger and heavier than most stand mounted speakers)

* I have never purchased a speaker that had a built in amp as part of the design

* The vast majority of Catalyst owners purchased them for home theater. My primary use is 2 channel listening

* And finally, the system (which is tri-amped) uses an active digital crossover as part of the speaker and amp(s) section, which means my analog data will be converted (once again) to digital and then back to analog to drive the amps. (As opposed to being driven through a myriad of capacitors, chokes, coils, and resistors called a passive crossover). This also means, of course, that I don’t get to choose amplifiers or speaker wire any longer ?

I had very high hopes for the Maggies (20.1’s) but the dealer did not have them setup well and they did not provide ANY of the magic that I know that speaker is capable of. I listened to some line arrays and the soundstage width was only between the speakers. The other speakers (Vandersteen 5A’s) have a great reputation but also had no magic in the dealer showroom (and I have heard them sound better).

I decided to take the risk on these speakers because (a) I own his subs and am blown away by the performance not just at this price point but at ANY price point; (b) I spent a fair amount of time talking with Mark (and a number of his current customers) about his speakers to get somewhat comfortable that they would meet or exceed some of my listening priorities (Mark tends to play down the quality of his products) (c) some of his Catalyst owners are in the music reproduction business and spoke highly of the product and (d) I figured the downside was pretty small considering the demand for the speakers. Worst case is I could dump them and buy something more traditional.

The evening I received notice that my new Catalysts were to ship, I went home and did some listening to my Dunlavys and developed a really bad case of “sellers remorse”, asking myself, “What have I done?”

I knew, in theory, that the direction I was going had some great upside potential. I could place the main speakers in the optimal position for soundstage and imaging and linear response and place the subs for the smoothest response, and then tie it all together with a Tact 2.2XP which would provide bass/main integration and provide great flexibility in allowing me to have a frequency response that I determined to be correct.

I have ordered some Sound Anchor custom stands but they have not been built yet so put together some 2 x 4’s that would make a furniture maker grimace. I just stuck them in the room, not precisely aimed, didn’t use subs, didn’t use the TacT and turned them on.

First impressions: Huge image with precise image placement, particularly in the center. With the exception of some horn speakers, probably some of the best dynamics of any speaker I can remember. Bass (down to about 40 Hz given I did not have the subs running) was very tight, clean and articulate. The front of the soundstage was more forward than I am used to with the Dunlavys and I have asked Mark to see if there are some things I can do to cause it to move further toward the front of the room. The other thing that struck me was the ability to hear more clearly individual voices in music like the Turtle Creek Choral CD of Psalms.

I then ran a quick TacT measurement on them (again without the subs), created a filter based upon a randomly selected target curve (corrected down to about 30Hz) and listened to a few more cuts. This is a FUN speaker with the ability to provide (I believe) great musical enjoyment. I have LOTS of work to do to now find the best listening position, main speaker position, sub position, crossover frequency, crossover slope and target curve. The cool thing about the latest Tact system is the ability to change the target curve on the fly and instantly hear the affect as you listen.

I hope I’m not kicked out of the “club” since I now own powered speakers!!

Stay tuned.
 
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audioguy

WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
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Near Atlanta, GA but not too near!
I am keeping the Dunlavys for a while as Mark Seaton will be coming to Georgia for another customer and is planning on coming to my home to compare his speakers to the Dunlavys. Then I will sell the Dunlavys. I already sold the Dunlavy center channel as I purchased three Catalysts for stereo and home theater. I have also sold the Bryston amps I was using to drive the Dunlavys.

I did use the Tact (and SigTech) on my Dunlavys and the primary improvement came in the bass (no surprise) and image stability. It also helped smooth out some upper mid-range issues that I had.

As most do, I had to compromise on the position of the Dunlavys to get the best compromise of bass and the remainder of the frequencies. That is the beauty of going separate like I am (and like Marty has).

It was listening to his system that helped me decide that I could even consider this approach.
 

Steve Bruzonsky

Well-Known Member
May 15, 2010
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In the early to mid nineties I had five Spica TC-60s on stands with 2 Vandersteen 2W subwoofers in my then basement theater.

I think you have gone the Spica on steroids route!!! Congrats! Besides I've known Mark Seaton since he was a kid (in college posting on AVS 10 years ago)
and I am not surprised that anything he builds sounds great!
 

FrantzM

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
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Yoooo! Steve!

Welcome .. it's a fun bunch here ... Pleased to see you posting but your 9 posts in a month is beneath you ... Hope to see reach your potential .. :D

Frantz
 

Mark Seaton

WBF Technical Expert (Speaker & Acoustics)
May 21, 2010
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It's always nice to have somewhere to come and still feel like a kid! (turning 34 in July)

Thank you to all you dinosaurs. :p

;)

Great to hear you are enjoying the Catalysts audioguy. I take that as a significant compliment knowing you have a nice, spacious room and the quality of speakers and other gear you have lived with.
 

Mark Seaton

WBF Technical Expert (Speaker & Acoustics)
May 21, 2010
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Audioguy, do you have photos of any of this stuff to post, or do I have to look it all up myself?

Hopefully this isn't an issue with forum policy, but here I have pictures of the black oak Catalysts like audioguy has:



 

audioguy

WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
2,794
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Near Atlanta, GA but not too near!
More information on the Catalysts:


Drive Units:

* High efficiency, Italian made, 8" coaxial midrange w/ Neodymium compression tweeter.
* Custom built, low distortion, high excursion, 12" sealed woofers utilizing a full copper sleeve over the pole piece for exceptionally low inductance and increased linearity.

Electronics & Amplification:

* Internally powered, tri-amplified design.
* Three (3) ICEpower channels of amplification with 24-bit/96kHz DSP executing the crossover design and response contouring.
* 300W powering the coaxial 1" Neodymium compression tweeter
* 700W powering the 8" midrange (coaxial with tweeter)
* 1000W powering the pair of 12" sealed woofers.
* Galvonic isolation of XLR inputs.

Cabinet Details:

* Robust, multi-layer MDF cabinet construction with extensive bracing, precision cut CNC parts.
* Large 1.25" bevel on baffle edges beneficial in diffraction reduction, aesthetic appeal, as well as easier flush baffle wall installation.
* Tapered rear of cabinet with 3.5" chamfer to the rear long edges allows tighter placement when angled or toed in.
* Gross dimensions: 16" wide, 38" tall, 14" deep (including 1/2" grill)

Performance Details:

* Intended range of use: 55-21kHz (there is very usable output to the 40's and I'm currently crossing them over at 50Hz. I had also used the Tact to correct them into the 30's without a sub with incredible results)
 
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FrantzM

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
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Chuck

I am interested how the Tact can correct into the 30's without a sub when the speaker doesn't go that low

OB

These speakers are flat from 50Hz to 21 KHz .. They reach however 30 at -20 Db or something. Room gain could provide an important boost at that frequency range. The TACT (any EQ as a matter fo fact) would be then used to further boost the output at that range and flatten the irregularities...

Frantz
 

Mark Seaton

WBF Technical Expert (Speaker & Acoustics)
May 21, 2010
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Chuck

I am interested how the Tact can correct into the 30's without a sub when the speaker doesn't go that low

Hi Steve,

The Catalysts have a pair of sealed 12" woofers powered by their own 1000W amplifier which is essentially the same as used in the SubMersive. They are optimized for greater efficiency in the 60-300Hz range than 12" drivers I might chose for a subwoofer, but they are very low distortion drivers and rather similar to the woofers in the Evolution Acoustics MM3. I could easily deliver the speaker with EQ to provide response to 20Hz (and likely will make such an option on a slender floor standing speaker I'll introduce later this year).

A sealed woofer doesn't have a hard low frequency limit like a ported design does. The ported design has a dramatic loss in clean output capability below the port tuning where the driver and port progressively cancel each others output. In a sealed design the output will reduce at a slower rate (eventually 12dB/octave) below the box resonance and un-EQ'd roll off of the woofer. A pair of 12" woofers per channel, 4 total, with enough power to move >1" p-p can deliver significant deep bass, especially in the context of what is needed for music listening. Obviously they are capable of much greater output above 60Hz than below 20Hz. How much is "enough" is greatly dependent on the application and use. :cool:
 

audioguy

WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
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Near Atlanta, GA but not too near!
I learned some very interesting stuff in my initial setup. When I did use the subs the first time and crossed them over very low (like 35hz) there was very little music in the 10 or so pieces that I played that even got the subs to move. Even the famous Track and Drum record did very little below 35 hz. While I'm not suggesting that one would not want a speaker that goes well below 35hz, it was pretty clear to me that you can still have a very nice musical system without subterranean bass!!

And the Catalyst are pretty far down in my room at 30hz uncorrected. So the TacT correction filter had a fairly large boost in that region to flatten it out. But as mark noted, these are very well built and highly powered 12 inch woofers and seem to take the heat pretty well (what little music actually got that low!).

I'm now running the subs crossed over at about 60hz with a 24db/octave slope. It is really starting to sound very nice (given my 2 x 4 temporary constructed speaker stands). If I can figure out how to get the plots from the Tact into a file, I can post them here and you can see what the uncorrected and corrected FR looks like.
 

audioguy

WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
2,794
73
1,635
Near Atlanta, GA but not too near!
I continue to be both amazed and pleased with my decision. HUGE soundstage, impeccable imaging, incredible articulation in the mid-range, spectacular dynamics, and did I say HUGE soundstage? The only bad news is that when you really crank them up, there is no distortion and still really sound awesome so I may be deaf by my next birthday

I'm hooked (and I have yet to try them for movies yet!) and I can't seem to wipe the smile off my face :D:D:D

I must add that I believe the TacT (and the room) plays a critical role in all of this. The flexibility of the crossover point (I'm currently using 60hz), the slope of the crossover point (24db/octave), the time alignment of the subs to the mains and the room correction all contribute mightily to what I am hearing.

If any of you are going to be in Atlanta for CEDIA and would like to hear Mark Seatons creation, let me know in advance and we will try to work something out.
 

wilson1

Well-Known Member
Jun 14, 2010
104
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401
Pleasanton, CA
Hi, Just found your thread.

Do you have anyinfo/ pics where the Catalyst speakers are placed?
Are the location significantly different than the Dunlavys?
 

audioguy

WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
2,794
73
1,635
Near Atlanta, GA but not too near!
Hi, Just found your thread.

Do you have anyinfo/ pics where the Catalyst speakers are placed?
Are the location significantly different than the Dunlavys?

Will post pictures once I get them on their official stands.

They, as of this moment, sit almost exactly where the Dunlavy's sat (the front baffle of each speaker). I'm pretty sure they will end up close to that but there is one dip in the uncorrected FR that won't correct so I'm going to play around with moving them closer or further from the side walls to see if I can fix that one area (which, by the way, given it's amplitude, I'm 99% sure is inaudible but for us of the OCD variety, that's not the point!!)
 

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