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Thread: Just When You Thought You've Seen It All

  1. #11
    Member Sponsor [WBF Founding Member] FrantzM's Avatar
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    Myles

    Last time I look at Chemistry was when I was in College for my Bachelor about 30 years ago.. Still I don't see from the formulation how something like Elmer glue would harm the Vinyl in LP... While I don't have any qualm about you and other looking askance at the method, I wouldn't call it stupid. You haven't so far proved it to be so. The Titebond meets the ASTM requirements for Water Resistance and wood bonding one if its characteristics from what I read is that it must fill cracks .. Just the recipe for getting to the fine grooves on a LP and bond to the dirt .. there ... I can see the attraction and I am interested. I don't like the curing time though .. Way too long. I don't know what the acid content is and I don't know what acid and what amount of acid would do to Vinyl. You may have to educate me on the matter...
    Frantz
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    "For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring."
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  2. #12
    Addicted to Best! Soundproof's Avatar
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    Being a skeptic, I first used a record that had absolutely no sentimental value - to test the principle. I waited until the glue had gone completely translucent, and then pulled it off. The record played without noise from dust and residue in the grooves.
    I then got a Miles Davis Porgy & Bess original from a garage sale that sounded as if it had entire colonies of dust and fungus in the grooves. I had only tried to play it once, and gave it up mid-first groove because it was so filled with whatever it was that induced the noise.

    Here are the two "pull-offs" from that cleaning session. The record afterwards played without noise, and was shiny.
    The chemistry is pretty obvious, comparable to oil and water analogies - the repellent force is due to matching polarities, and there's no way that the glue will adhere more strongly to the vinyl than to "other glue." I'm pretty certain one could have played these ... though with noise transferred from the now clean vinyl.

    Last edited by Soundproof; 05-14-2012 at 04:59 AM.
    Searching wide and far around the globe for my own most preferred distortion.

  3. #13
    Member Sponsor [WBF Founding Member] FrantzM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soundproof View Post
    Being a skeptic, I first used a record that had absolutely no sentimental value - to test the principle. I waited until the glue had gone completely translucent, and then pulled it off. The record played without noise from dust and residue in the grooves.
    I then got a Miles Davis Porgy & Bess original from a garage sale that sounded as if it had entire colonies of dust and fungus in the grooves. I had only tried to play it once, and gave it up mid-first groove because it was so filled with whatever it was that induced the noise.

    Here are the two "pull-offs" from that cleaning session. The record afterwards played without noise, and was shiny.
    The chemistry is pretty obvious, comparable to oil and water analogies - the repellent force is due to matching polarities, and there's no way that the glue will adhere more strongly to the vinyl than to "other glue." I'm pretty certain one could have played these ... though with noise transferred from the now clean vinyl.

    What glue did you use? How long did it take to dry? Do you regularly treat records this way?
    Frantz
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    "For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring."
    —Carl Sagan
    "Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius -- and a lot of courage -- to move in the opposite direction."
    — E. F. Schumacher
    (mis-attributed to A. Einstein)

  4. #14
    Member Sponsor Addicted to Best! Ronm1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MylesBAstor View Post
    We've already had a few record Rx that negatively affected the LP such as Soundguard.
    Wasn't that on a recent list of still indispensable items with Stereophile reviewers!
    A Bug!! Naa...that's a feature!!
    Cables at DAC end impedance matched. Synergistic

  5. #15
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    I love it when folks with no experience with an idea or process voice strong opinions based on ignorance.

    This process works very well, though I've never seen it recommended for use with Elmer's Glue. The preferred is Titebond II wood glue. The process is the same, but it does take a few applications to get the feel of it to get the surface of the vinyl covered smoothly and without runoff. I used Freezer Paper (essentially a wax-type paper) under the record so if glue does come off the record while you're smoothing it out, it doesn't stick to anything.

    It can be messy if you're not careful, and you don't have to apply it on a turntable. Once you get enough glue on the disk by applying it with the pointed dispenser, circularly around the record, I just use a plastic credit card to distribute it smoothly on the surface. The glue doesn't stick to the card, either. Just peel it off when dry.

    When you do the peeling, start from the edge of the record by lifting the glue layer up and away from the vinyl. Keep the peeling large and move slowly. Avoid leaving little pieces or strips of glue on the vinyl. They're a bear to remove individually. Too thin to pull up the tiny layer afterwards.

    I do reserve this step for seriously messed up records. There's no point in going through all of this process on records in good condition that you could clean normally (though it won't hurt anything unless you're sloppy with the glue). I follow this step with a standard two step Disk Doctor cleaning and rinse on an RCM. If the record is still particularly noisy after this much, an application of Last record preservative adds some lubrication that quiets 'rough groove wall' noise down a bit.

    --Bill

  6. #16
    Addicted to Best! Soundproof's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FrantzM View Post
    What glue did you use? How long did it take to dry? Do you regularly treat records this way?
    I used standard water baser wood glue. Called Casco here in Europe. It comes off in one piece. Just wait until it has dried - you'll know because it becomes transparent. Goes white again as you peel it off. Gives a total deep clean.
    Searching wide and far around the globe for my own most preferred distortion.

  7. #17
    Member Addicted to Best! NorthStar's Avatar
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    This is the best album cleaning method so far; thanx Steve for sharing!

    And like Bill just said above; it is perfect for your less than perfect vinyls.

    It is amazing what simple and logical things of life can do to improve the Sound!

    And Myles, again, you can say whatever ...
    All the Very Best, - Bob --------- "And it stoned me to my soul" - Van Morrison --------- AudiophileAudition

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by NorthStar View Post
    This is the best album cleaning method so far; thanx Steve for sharing!

    And like Bill just said above; it is perfect for your less than perfect vinyls.

    It is amazing what simple and logical things of life can do to improve the Sound!

    And Myles, again, you can say whatever ...
    Your records. Are they replaceable? Caveat emptor. Much rather use a RCM with the new enzyme based cleaners. Far better solution. If you want to remove schmutz, go buy a DAK brush. They even furnish SEM photographs to show that their brush removes dirt from the grooves.

  9. #19
    Addicted to Best! cjfrbw's Avatar
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    My wife does this to her face all the time, but her's is green/blue colored. She definitely does not sound better afterward.

  10. #20
    Moderator Moderator treitz3's Avatar
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    Steve, this is one of the "old school" tricks for the poor man to get their vinyl clean. I haven't tried it myself, so I can not comment directly on how this works but I have had many a conversation with those who do not own an LP cleaning machine and would like to listen to an album with a lot of added noise to the substrate of the LP itself. Other than the *possible* chemical reaction that may occur, most users of this method say that it works well and makes an un-listenable LP, well...listenable. For those without any sort of cleaning method or income that doesn't match what tools are needed for a *proper* cleaning, this method is right up their alley.

    That said, I would never attempt to do this on my LP player as pictured in the video. Many of the folks I have corresponded with that do this either have a lazy-susan or a spare "junk" TT to apply the glue on the LP itself. Oh, one more thing. I have yet to hear of anybody who used this method of cleaning LP's do a comparison between this and the LP cleaning machine. Seems that once the LP cleaning machine is purchased, nobody [that I can recall] has chimed in to offer any feedback. Back when I got more serious about vinyl, I was going to try it but I ended up going to the Hi-Fi store in town and getting a dual sided 25th anniversary Nitty Gritty RCM instead. Been using it, along with steam cleaning with distilled ever since.
    In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence.

    The best way to enjoy digital music reproduction is to never listen to a good analogue reproduction.

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