The Needledrop Discussion: Making High Quality Digital Files from Your LPs

[Lee]

I searched and was not able to find anything on this subject so I figured it might be good to share experiences. I recently had a breakthrough in LP capture using some of my own gear an that of my friend Nick's. Nick and I do hirez classical recordings in Atlanta and we are always experimenting with new audio gear.

Here's my current needledrop rig:



We are using a VPI Scoutmaster as the table. Signal path is Lyra Argo(i) into JMW 9 tonearm into Zu Mission phono cables to Modwright SWP9.0SE phono stage to Stereolab Reference interconnects to Benchmark ADC1 to Transparent Audio's flagship 75 ohm cable to Sound Devices 722 which is running on battery. All else was plugged into a Shunyata Hydra 2 box with Black Mamba and Venom3 power cables. We had done a drop into the Sound Devices with lesser cables and a very new Lyra (well before needed break-in where the highs settled down and the bass came up) but the results were not satisfying so this is our second go at it. We do minor level and spacing edits in SoundForge once we load the files off the CF card in the Sound Devices. We use my Grado RS-1i cans for monitoring since we are worried about the speaker playback impacting the tonearm.

We did there needledrops with the new Graceland reissue LP which is superb, a German Island Traffic Mr. Fantasy, and Count Basie's Chairman of the Board on Classic Records, all at 33 rpm.

I must say the results are pretty darn good. Today I am sending some samples to a top mastering engineer to get his opinion and see if he has any suggestions. The bass is nice and full but not overly so and the soundstaging is almost as good as original playback. Lots of detail preserved by the Lyra and Modwright I think and both of these units seem quite close to neutrality in my opinion. I would say there is a very slight bit of "presence" lacking compared to LP playback but that is expected given the extra path.

Areas to improve...as good as that Zu Mission cable is, I think we can do better there. And I will probably trade in the cart for hopefully, if I can afford it, a Lyra Kleos in a year or so which will be more balanced based on my listening.

Nevertheless I think I have found a needledrop rig worthy of creating some high quality hirez digital. I'm playing back the files now on a Mac Mini running Decible with a AQ Diamond USB cable into a Benchmark DAC1 Pre. Sounds amazing!

Also I am doing a three step cleaning process of every LP, new or not, on my VPI 16.5:

MFSL Enzyme>>MFSL Record Wash>>Final Rinse of Aquafina (using MFSL record brushes for each solution and following with Hunt EDA brush before playing, MFSL stylus cleaner for each side)

What needledrop rigs and processes are other members here using?

What best practices have you found?

[rockitman]

I searched and was not able to find anything on this subject so I figured it might be good to share experiences. I recently had a breakthrough in LP capture using some of my own gear an that of my friend Nick's. Nick and I do hirez classical recordings in Atlanta and we are always experimenting with new audio gear.

Here's my current needledrop rig:



We are using a VPI Scoutmaster as the table. Signal path is Lyra Argo(i) into JMW 9 tonearm into Zu Mission phono cables to Modwright SWP9.0SE phono stage to Stereolab Reference interconnects to Benchmark ADC1 to Transparent Audio's flagship 75 ohm cable to Sound Devices 722 which is running on battery. All else was plugged into a Shunyata Hydra 2 box with Black Mamba and Venom3 power cables. We had done a drop into the Sound Devices with lesser cables and a very new Lyra (well before needed break-in where the highs settled down and the bass came up) but the results were not satisfying so this is our second go at it. We do minor level and spacing edits in SoundForge once we load the files off the CF card in the Sound Devices. We use my Grado RS-1i cans for monitoring since we are worried about the speaker playback impacting the tonearm.

We did there needledrops with the new Graceland reissue LP which is superb, a German Island Traffic Mr. Fantasy, and Count Basie's Chairman of the Board on Classic Records, all at 33 rpm.

I must say the results are pretty darn good. Today I am sending some samples to a top mastering engineer to get his opinion and see if he has any suggestions. The bass is nice and full but not overly so and the soundstaging is almost as good as original playback. Lots of detail preserved by the Lyra and Modwright I think and both of these units seem quite close to neutrality in my opinion. I would say there is a very slight bit of "presence" lacking compared to LP playback but that is expected given the extra path.

Areas to improve...as good as that Zu Mission cable is, I think we can do better there. And I will probably trade in the cart for hopefully, if I can afford it, a Lyra Kleos in a year or so which will be more balanced based on my listening.

Nevertheless I think I have found a needledrop rig worthy of creating some high quality hirez digital. I'm playing back the files now on a Mac Mini running Decible with a AQ Diamond USB cable into a Benchmark DAC1 Pre. Sounds amazing!

Also I am doing a three step cleaning process of every LP, new or not, on my VPI 16.5:

MFSL Enzyme>>MFSL Record Wash>>Final Rinse of Aquafina (using MFSL record brushes for each solution and following with Hunt EDA brush before playing, MFSL stylus cleaner for each side)

What needledrop rigs and processes are other members here using?

What best practices have you found?

I haven't found a desire or need to do needle drops when I can listen to the real deal (Vinyl or RTR). That said, you have the ultimate portable recording deck..the Sound Devices. Needle Drops on a well sort RTR rig sound even better than the hi-rez needle drop counterparts in my experience.

[Lee]

I haven't found a desire or need to do needle drops when I can listen to the real deal (Vinyl or RTR). That said, you have the ultimate portable recording deck..the Sound Devices. Needle Drops on a well sort RTR rig sound even better than the hi-rez needle drop counterparts in my experience.

Christian, I agree that R2R can sound even better. Nick has eight or so R2R decks and we do "tapedrops" on those using a Bottlehead tape pre. But the problem is that music selection is limited.

Now the advantages as I see it for needledrops are as follows:

1. Getting great digital versions of albums that are rare so play can be kept to a minimum.

2. Getting digital versions of albums you select versus the audiophile labels' old tired warhorses.

3. Having the convenience of computer audio playback.

4. Making excellent downconversions to CD for playback in WAVE on an iPod or iPhone or CD in a car.

5. Having a digital backup in case something accidentally happens to the record.

[Bruce B]

I was just recording some LP's for a client last weekend at Mike L's place. I used a portable laptop Sonoma rig and the Grimm AD1 A/D converter. Mike can weigh in on the sound but I though it was as close as you're going to get with digital.
Later we did some of the unobtainium direct-cut albums!!

[rockitman]

Christian, I agree that R2R can sound even better. Nick has eight or so R2R decks and we do "tapedrops" on those using a Bottlehead tape pre. But the problem is that music selection is limited.

Now the advantages as I see it for needledrops are as follows:

1. Getting great digital versions of albums that are rare so play can be kept to a minimum.

2. Getting digital versions of albums you select versus the audiophile labels' old tired warhorses.

3. Having the convenience of computer audio playback.

4. Making excellent downconversions to CD for playback in WAVE on an iPod or iPhone or CD in a car.

5. Having a digital backup in case something accidentally happens to the record.

Those are valid reason's and yes, RTR source software can be tough to get (15 ips dubs of studio safety masters).

[Lee]

I was just recording some LP's for a client last weekend at Mike L's place. I used a portable laptop Sonoma rig and the Grimm AD1 A/D converter. Mike can weigh in on the sound but I though it was as close as you're going to get with digital.
Later we did some of the unobtainium direct-cut albums!!

I'd love to hear one of those. Between the Sonoma and the Grimm I bet it sounds wonderful Bruce!

[JackD201]

Sonoma has portable? I thought they only did PCI. Hmmmmmm.

[Bruce B]

Sonoma has portable? I thought they only did PCI. Hmmmmmm.

It is a PCI card. I have mine in a 2-slot MAGMA chassis sitting under the laptop.

[JackD201]

Been using Macs a long time so excuse my ignorance Bruce. How is the laptop connected to the Magma? Thanks in advance.

[Bruce B]

Been using Macs a long time so excuse my ignorance Bruce. How is the laptop connected to the Magma? Thanks in advance.

There is an Express34 card that fits into a slot on the front left side. You can see it sticking out in the photo above.