Aesthetix IO (Eclipse) phono preamp

Hyperion

Well-Known Member
Oct 3, 2011
441
231
950
Stockholm/Sweden
Hi,

I'm seriously considering this Phono preamp (with the additional line input and volume control), and would like to get in contact with potenial owners of the IO-series from Aesthetix. I believe the IO is what I'm looking for sonically (and I'm also a big fan of the design and user experience in general). But, I'm slightly concerned about earlier reports of noise/hum issues, as well as riability and the practical side of things related to tube life and generated heat.

So....

- Is the IO Eclipse (still) up there among the best on the market?
- Will the possibility of driving a poweramp directly offer any disadvantages, or be as good as or better than using a separate preamp of the same caliber?
- Are the tubes worth the expense, effort and potential hassle...?

What I'm looking for (and hoping to improve) is a high degree of naturalness, musicality and flow combined with great dynamics and a large, holographic soundstage.

My system:

Brinkmann Bardo + 10.5 tonearm + Pi-pickup (Analog)
Audio Aero La Fontaine (CD/DAC/Pre)
Karan KA M2000 (Monoblocks)
Sonus Faber Futura (Speakers)
Kubala Sosna Elation (Cables)

Thanks!
 

Hyperion

Well-Known Member
Oct 3, 2011
441
231
950
Stockholm/Sweden
Aesthetix IO Eclipse vs. Pass Labs XP-25

After much research and soul searching during the last couple of months, I'm going to make a final decision this weekend, where the final battle stands inbetween the discussed IO Eclipse and the Pass Labs XP-25.

In the right corner:

Aesthetix IO Eclipse with dual power supplies

+ the beauty of tubes
+ superior build quality and aesthetics (IMHO)
+ additional line input (for a digital source) making it a fully functional preamp (which in the end almost justifies the price...)

- twice as expensive as the Pass
- large boxes - 3 in total
- a LOT of tubes, which means a lot of heat and potential sources of hum and/or failure

...and in the left corner:

Pass Labs XP-25

+ half price compared to the Aesthetix
+ less (and smaller) boxes - 2 in total
+ less heat and less potential problems...

- no additional line input (which means you'll need a dedicated preamp for a digital source)

Your advice please.
 

MylesBAstor

Well-Known Member
Apr 20, 2010
11,236
81
1,725
New York City
After much research and soul searching during the last couple of months, I'm going to make a final decision this weekend, where the final battle stands inbetween the discussed IO Eclipse and the Pass Labs XP-25.

In the right corner:

Aesthetix IO Eclipse with dual power supplies

+ the beauty of tubes
+ superior build quality and aesthetics (IMHO)
+ additional line input (for a digital source) making it a fully functional preamp (which in the end almost justifies the price...)

- twice as expensive as the Pass
- large boxes - 3 in total
- a LOT of tubes, which means a lot of heat and potential sources of hum and/or failure

...and in the left corner:

Pass Labs XP-25

+ half price compared to the Aesthetix
+ less (and smaller) boxes - 2 in total
+ less heat and less potential problems...

- no additional line input (which means you'll need a dedicated preamp for a digital source)

Your advice please.

You'll definitely find the PASS won't heat up the room like the Aesthetix :) The other thing is that the Aesthetix can drive you crazy hunting for better tubes. So either have to satisfied with the stock tubes or be prepared to hunt for some better ones :) And of course with that, comes the worry of finding *quiet* tubes. Not a small order!
 

Hyperion

Well-Known Member
Oct 3, 2011
441
231
950
Stockholm/Sweden
You'll definitely find the PASS won't heat up the room like the Aesthetix :) The other thing is that the Aesthetix can drive you crazy hunting for better tubes. So either have to satisfied with the stock tubes or be prepared to hunt for some better ones :) And of course with that, comes the worry of finding *quiet* tubes. Not a small order!

Well, I do live in a northern country, so the heat is most welcome ;)

Tube rolling might be fun, but it's not something I'm planning to do, at least not initially.

I guess it comes down to performance in relation to the potential practical issues caused by a large amount of tubes (is it worth the heat and potential hassle?). If the Pass can give me most of what the Aesthetix can sonically, it might be the obvious choice - putting the benefit of the additional line input of the Aesthetix aside.
 

Bill Hart

Well-Known Member
May 11, 2012
2,683
174
1,150
Don't be so sure the additional line in will be sufficient- when i had a Steelhead, i never liiked the sound of the passive gain control. I'd take that out of the equation, you may still need a line stage for both units.
Can you get both at home to try at the same time? For several weeks, so you can form real impressions? My suspicion is that they will both sound dramatically different to each other, so its an apples v. germany type comparison. me, i'd probably fall on the side of the tube unit, but I know my biases. And i don't know if the pass will ultimately prove to be unsatisfying, no matter how quiet and wide bandwidth it is (I"m not suggesting that it will be, i have not heard one in my system but I suspect it doesn't have the richness of the IO).
And why limit yourself? ARC Ref phono may be a better compromise; I chose the Allnic, which I love; someone (who will go unmentioned unless he wishes to be named), told me that the Doshi is a killer (and i think that's a full featured preamp so your line stage worries can be put to rest as well).
 

MylesBAstor

Well-Known Member
Apr 20, 2010
11,236
81
1,725
New York City
Don't be so sure the additional line in will be sufficient- when i had a Steelhead, i never liiked the sound of the passive gain control. I'd take that out of the equation, you may still need a line stage for both units.
Can you get both at home to try at the same time? For several weeks, so you can form real impressions? My suspicion is that they will both sound dramatically different to each other, so its an apples v. germany type comparison. me, i'd probably fall on the side of the tube unit, but I know my biases. And i don't know if the pass will ultimately prove to be unsatisfying, no matter how quiet and wide bandwidth it is (I"m not suggesting that it will be, i have not heard one in my system but I suspect it doesn't have the richness of the IO).
And why limit yourself? ARC Ref phono may be a better compromise; I chose the Allnic, which I love; someone (who will go unmentioned unless he wishes to be named), told me that the Doshi is a killer (and i think that's a full featured preamp so your line stage worries can be put to rest as well).

Doshi comes in both line/phono and dedicated phono ;) I have the phono section and use it with the GAT pre.
 

mep

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
9,481
17
0
After much research and soul searching during the last couple of months, I'm going to make a final decision this weekend, where the final battle stands inbetween the discussed IO Eclipse and the Pass Labs XP-25.

In the right corner:

Aesthetix IO Eclipse with dual power supplies

+ the beauty of tubes
+ superior build quality and aesthetics (IMHO)
+ additional line input (for a digital source) making it a fully functional preamp (which in the end almost justifies the price...)

- twice as expensive as the Pass
- large boxes - 3 in total
- a LOT of tubes, which means a lot of heat and potential sources of hum and/or failure

...and in the left corner:

Pass Labs XP-25

+ half price compared to the Aesthetix
+ less (and smaller) boxes - 2 in total
+ less heat and less potential problems...

- no additional line input (which means you'll need a dedicated preamp for a digital source)

Your advice please.

It depends on what you are going for. IMO, the absolute worst place to put tubes in your system is a phono section, especially if you are using a LO MC cartridge. The IO uses all tubes to amplify the miniscule output voltage from LO MC cartridges. Most engineers aren’t that brave because they know that tubes are inherently noisy and to use tubes to amplify a signal below .5 mV is going to add noise to the delicate signal (and in reality, tubes will add noise to any circuit). That noise will follow through the preamp and the amp. Even the highest graded low-noise tubes will be noisy to some extent and that is when they are still behaving. There is a reason that ARC uses J-Fets in front of the tubes in order to bring the signal up to a reasonable level before the tubes have to amplify it. Other companies use an SUT in front of the tubes for the same reason.

If you like noise riding on your signal, by all means go with the IO. If you can believe the forums, the company has a history of products where the tubes are noisy, and that is in their regular preamps, not phono stages. And as Myles said, good tubes go bad with regards to making more noise and/or going microphonic. No tube product could ever hope to be as quiet as a well engineered SS circuit. Tubes inherent noise levels are much higher than their SS equivalents. Tubes have very low transconductance compared to SS which increases their noise level.

If you like noise and you are a glutton for punishment, by all means go for the IO. If you want quiet problem free performance, go for the Pass Labs. And this is coming from a guy who used to own a Counterpoint SA-2 pre-preamp and a heavily modified SA-5.1 to play LPs with. I was a glutton for punishment. I’m not anymore.
 

Hyperion

Well-Known Member
Oct 3, 2011
441
231
950
Stockholm/Sweden
Don't be so sure the additional line in will be sufficient- when i had a Steelhead, i never liiked the sound of the passive gain control. I'd take that out of the equation, you may still need a line stage for both units.

To my knowledge, the line input is active - not passive. It's also of the highest order. I don't think this is a compromised option at allt (though less flexible than using a stand alone preamp).

Can you get both at home to try at the same time? For several weeks, so you can form real impressions? My suspicion is that they will both sound dramatically different to each other, so its an apples v. germany type comparison. me, i'd probably fall on the side of the tube unit, but I know my biases. And i don't know if the pass will ultimately prove to be unsatisfying, no matter how quiet and wide bandwidth it is (I"m not suggesting that it will be, i have not heard one in my system but I suspect it doesn't have the richness of the IO).

Unfortenately, no. Available options on my local market are very few and far apart. My general rule is always to listen and compare in my own system before making any qualified decisions, but in this case it's impossible I'm afraid. The potential "richness" of the Aesthetix is one of the qualities I'm looking for. On the other hand, Pass might provide a more neutral and trouble-free option, where the character could be altered further (and easier) by trying out different cartridges etc.

And why limit yourself? ARC Ref phono may be a better compromise; I chose the Allnic, which I love; someone (who will go unmentioned unless he wishes to be named), told me that the Doshi is a killer (and i think that's a full featured preamp so your line stage worries can be put to rest as well).

The Allnic and/or Doshi are too exotic for me I'm afraid. I can't see any possibility of selling any of these on the used market in Europe, which is indeed suffering...

Thanks for your input, much appreciated.
 

Hyperion

Well-Known Member
Oct 3, 2011
441
231
950
Stockholm/Sweden
If you like noise and you are a glutton for punishment, by all means go for the IO. If you want quiet problem free performance, go for the Pass Labs. And this is coming from a guy who used to own a Counterpoint SA-2 pre-preamp and a heavily modified SA-5.1 to play LPs with. I was a glutton for punishment. I’m not anymore.

Well, if the Aesthetix (and the potential drawbacks of tubes are as significant as explained), the Pass would be the obvious choice... Thanks.
 

JackD201

WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
12,308
1,425
1,820
Manila, Philippines
I know you aren't asking for other options but I will highly recommend the EMT PR-66 to your list of candidates. It has the line level input on top of three phono inputs. It also has full adjustability not just for load but also for eq and even crossover frequencies. This is my dream phonostage.
 

Bill Hart

Well-Known Member
May 11, 2012
2,683
174
1,150
I know you aren't asking for other options but I will highly recommend the EMT PR-66 to your list of candidates. It has the line level input on top of three phono inputs. It also has full adjustability not just for load but also for eq and even crossover frequencies. This is my dream phonostage.
I'd buy one of those just on looks alone. JPA 66? The thing with all the dials and the meters? Pure retro-frankenstein's lab. I love it!
 

JackD201

WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
12,308
1,425
1,820
Manila, Philippines
Ooops! JPA indeed. Call it a Studer envy Freudian slip. LOL.
 

Havenhearth

Well-Known Member
May 20, 2013
13
0
231
Hi,

I'm seriously considering this Phono preamp (with the additional line input and volume control), and would like to get in contact with potenial owners of the IO-series from Aesthetix. I believe the IO is what I'm looking for sonically (and I'm also a big fan of the design and user experience in general). But, I'm slightly concerned about earlier reports of noise/hum issues, as well as riability and the practical side of things related to tube life and generated heat.

So....

My system:

Brinkmann Bardo + 10.5 tonearm + Pi-pickup (Analog)
Audio Aero La Fontaine (CD/DAC/Pre)
Karan KA M2000 (Monoblocks)
Sonus Faber Futura (Speakers)
Kubala Sosna Elation (Cables)

Thanks!

Hello Hyperion,

Writing to learn what choice you made for your phono stage. Did you go with Pass, Aesthetix or neither?

I wish I'd known then what I know now; I would have weighed in on the side of the Aesthetix. I believe Myles' preference (prejudice?) for solid state is showing, in that he doesn't speak to the Aesthetix' performance quality.

It's been my experience that, at this performance level, each component has earned its right to be heard on its own merits. The components' ability to work together can only be evaluated with the prospective phono preamp in place, working with the other system components to their best advantage.

I was interested in the Pass XP25 until I learned about the Aesthetix Io, reading the reviews. I'm about to purchase the Aesthetix Io and wonder how your choice has worn for you over the years since you posted this thread.

Best Wishes,

David
 

Hyperion

Well-Known Member
Oct 3, 2011
441
231
950
Stockholm/Sweden
Hello Hyperion,

Writing to learn what choice you made for your phono stage. Did you go with Pass, Aesthetix or neither?

I wish I'd known then what I know now; I would have weighed in on the side of the Aesthetix. I believe Myles' preference (prejudice?) for solid state is showing, in that he doesn't speak to the Aesthetix' performance quality.

It's been my experience that, at this performance level, each component has earned its right to be heard on its own merits. The components' ability to work together can only be evaluated with the prospective phono preamp in place, working with the other system components to their best advantage.

I was interested in the Pass XP25 until I learned about the Aesthetix Io, reading the reviews. I'm about to purchase the Aesthetix Io and wonder how your choice has worn for you over the years since you posted this thread.

Best Wishes,

David

Hello David,

Good to hear from you!

Well, it's been a while... Since last time I've established an audio business (www.perfect-sense.se), where I do carry Aesthetix - amongst others. My reference phono stage from this point forward will be the Ypsilon VPS-100. Aesthetix makes great gear. That said - I do prefer the simplicity and reability of the Ypsilon. Another worthy contender on this elevated level would be the brand new two box phono stage from Absolare first shown at this years CES.
 

Jeffy

Well-Known Member
Apr 27, 2014
475
171
348
Orchard Lake, MI
I heard the Absolare phono at CES and it was great. It is similar to the Aesthetix Io as they both do not use step up transformers. You are more limited on the Absolare as its output is only 58db. The Aesthetix can be set from 60 to 80 db output.
 

Ron Resnick

Site Co-Owner, Administrator
Jan 24, 2015
16,020
13,348
2,665
Beverly Hills, CA
I have had the Io since the second year Jim started making them. I love it. I have not flirted with any other phono pre-amp since I purchased the Io.
 

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