Clearaudio & SME table opinions?

trh8654 · May 7, 2012

Clearaudio Innovation Wood
SME 20/3
These two tables are at the top of my list to move to. Arm will be my SME V, cartrides will change, but right now I have the Lyra Kleos on.
I tend to keep tables/arms for a long time so build quality and support, along with sound are huge to me.
Rest of the system.
BAT VK-P10 phono (may upgrade to SE status)
BAT REX preamp
BAT REX amplifier
YG Acoustics Carmel
JL Audio F110 X2
I've heard both tables in various systems and was always impressed but was wondering if anyone here could offer any sonic comparisons between the two tables.
Thanks for any help!

vinylphilemag · May 7, 2012

I can't offer anything but generalisms, but I must admit to a soft spot for the SMEs. There's something about them that screams understated engineering excellence! I'm sure either TT will be a winner!

trh8654 · May 10, 2012

The 20/3 is the way I'm leaning so far. Might try the Graham arm sometime in the future but the SME V arm will be on there for awhile.

PeterA · Jun 24, 2012

Have you decided on the SME 20/3? I just upgraded from an SME 10 to an SME 30/12 with V-12 arm. I haven't heard the 20/3 but I suspect from reading the reviews, that the 20/3 is closer to the 30 than it is to the 10. It may be the highest value SME table right now. It should be excellent with your SME V arm. What cartridge will you be using?

rockitman · Jun 24, 2012

I prefer non suspended mass loaded tables like the innovation. The Graham Phantom Supreme is a match made in heaven for that table and many others..It is a superior arm to anything SME can come up with save for using an SME on an SME table. Not here to start a war....

PeterA · Jun 24, 2012

I certainly won't engage in a war. Everyone has opinions and preferences. I used to have the unsuspended SME 10 and found it benefitted greatly by being placed on a Vibraplane. Others have done so with Micro Seiki tables. I've never heard the Phantom in my system. It is an excellent arm based on the ones I've heard at shows and they are very popular arms.

I did do a direct comparison on my SME 30/12 between the SME V and V-12. The V-12 is quite a bit better. I read that Bob Graham does also offer a longer arm wand for those who want to lengthen the Phantom, but that he doesn't really believe it improves the arm. Just meeting consumer demand. I can't say for sure, it's just what I read on the net.

There are quite a few people who use either the SME 312S or the V-12 on other tables with great results. And of course there are many Phantoms on SME tables.

MylesBAstor · Jun 24, 2012

The one thing that bothers me about the SME arm is the inability to adjust azimuth. Sure you can shim, etc but it a kluge to a basic tonearm necessity.

As far as Bob, his reservation with the 12 inch arm is that alignment is more critical than with a shorter arm. With his alignment jig, I don't see how that's a problem.

PeterA · Jun 24, 2012

If azimuth adjustability is critical, then the SME 312S has both the advantage of the 12" length and the removable headshell for both easy cartridge swapping and azimuth adjustability.

I don't understand why alignment is more critical with a longer arm, but let's assume that is the case. I agree that Bob's jig, or any other properly designed protractor would solve the problem. It seems to me that the shorter arm with a more pronounced curve to the tracing arc would exasperate the problem of a poorly aligned cartridge, especially in the zenith direction, if the stylus is a line-contact type. Not so much if it is a conical stylus.

Also, I believe, if anti skate and VTA are slightly off, the longer the arm, the less a slight error matters. There is less skating force with a longer arm, if all else is the same and also different LP thicknesses effect VTA/SRA less with a longer arm.

MylesBAstor · Jun 24, 2012

PeterA said:
If azimuth adjustability is critical, then the SME 312S has both the advantage of the 12" length and the removable headshell for both easy cartridge swapping and azimuth adjustability.

I don't understand why alignment is more critical with a longer arm, but let's assume that is the case. I agree that Bob's jig, or any other properly designed protractor would solve the problem. It seems to me that the shorter arm with a more pronounced curve to the tracing arc would exasperate the problem of a poorly aligned cartridge, especially in the zenith direction, if the stylus is a line-contact type. Not so much if it is a conical stylus.

Also, I believe, if anti skate and VTA are slightly off, the longer the arm, the less a slight error matters. There is less skating force with a longer arm, if all else is the same and also different LP thicknesses effect VTA/SRA less with a longer arm.

If I'm correct, the area of tangency is more affected/reduced with a 12 inch than a 9 inch arm if the cartridge is misaligned.

MylesBAstor · Jun 24, 2012

Of course, you can't adjust overhang with this arm! I think that's a problem.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Naim-Aro-Tu..._Turntables&hash=item35bd852e60#ht_861wt_1186

rockitman · Jun 24, 2012

I use the 10" Graham arm wand. Supposedly there is a new jig for the 10". That said, I use a Mint LP with the spindle hole matched exactly to my table. It results in a spindle to pivot distance of 1.6 mm more than the Graham standard for the 10" arm.

JackD201 · Jun 25, 2012

I use the Phantom L wands as well. Great tracker.

Getting back on topic, I really think the newer CAs that incorporate panzer wood or delrin match my tastes more than the earlier all acrylic plinth models. More body and weight. I've had very little listening time with SME tables.

andromedaaudio · Jun 25, 2012

Well i have the sme now playing for 1,5 years or so , and i can still say i am very happy with the table , could it be partly because sme was high acclaimed by M fremer , could be

, maybe a lot is perception afterall.
Fact is it is extremely easy to use , has very good adjustable speedaccuracy , speedbutton selection, a very easy arm as you know already.
The design is of very high quility maching , i know a bit about it beause i work a lot with companies that are in the machining business , (hell i should make a alu model

)
I heard the tables of clearaudio , also expensive ones a couple of times at shows so not very much knowledge there.
The Sme is neutral/ predictable and gives a stable portrayal of the music without noise, maybe that is all that is needed .
I dont think you can go wrong with it

gr hj

trh8654 · Jun 29, 2012

Hi everybody, thanks for all the help. Have decided around 99% to go with the SME. Have not made a move yet, because my wife decided she is going to the Olympics next month. Waiting to see what that does to the budget. Until then I am happy with the old Michell/SME/Lyra combo.

trh8654 · Jul 11, 2012

Had the SME 10 and Avid Diva SP here for several days. Used both with Dynavector and Lyra cartridges. SME V arm. Liked the SME, Liked the Avid more.

microstrip · Jul 11, 2012

I am currently selling my SME30/2 because I want to get a turntable with multi-arm capability, and regret it a lot. The SME30/s is a great turntable and sounds great - it has a mastertape quality, as it seems to ignore the vinyl modulation noise much better than other more fancy turntables. There is something correct about the system 30/2 - SMEV - it just plays the records nothing else. I am still using it with a Sumiko Palo Santos. Unhappily the SME's can not be fitted with an extra arm-board - hard core vinyl lovers should remember it.

If you can find an used SME30/2 in the USA for a price similar to the new 20 go for it - the SME30 is really in another class. And yes, Jack is correct - the older top ClearAudio's with acrylic chassis were less full-bodied than the SME30.

Search

Search

Clearaudio & SME table opinions?

trh8654

Well-Known Member

vinylphilemag

WBF Founding Member

trh8654

Well-Known Member

PeterA

Well-Known Member

rockitman

Member Sponsor

PeterA

Well-Known Member

MylesBAstor

Well-Known Member

PeterA

Well-Known Member

MylesBAstor

Well-Known Member

MylesBAstor

Well-Known Member

rockitman

Member Sponsor

JackD201

WBF Founding Member

andromedaaudio

VIP/Donor

trh8654

Well-Known Member

trh8654

Well-Known Member

microstrip

VIP/Donor

Similar threads

Members online