Clearaudio & SME table opinions?

**trh8654** · 05-07-2012, 09:11 AM

Clearaudio Innovation Wood
SME 20/3
These two tables are at the top of my list to move to. Arm will be my SME V, cartrides will change, but right now I have the Lyra Kleos on.
I tend to keep tables/arms for a long time so build quality and support, along with sound are huge to me.
Rest of the system.
BAT VK-P10 phono (may upgrade to SE status)
BAT REX preamp
BAT REX amplifier
YG Acoustics Carmel
JL Audio F110 X2
I've heard both tables in various systems and was always impressed but was wondering if anyone here could offer any sonic comparisons between the two tables.
Thanks for any help!

**vinylphilemag** · 05-07-2012, 02:26 PM

I can't offer anything but generalisms, but I must admit to a soft spot for the SMEs. There's something about them that screams understated engineering excellence! I'm sure either TT will be a winner!

**trh8654** · 05-10-2012, 10:29 AM

The 20/3 is the way I'm leaning so far. Might try the Graham arm sometime in the future but the SME V arm will be on there for awhile.

**PeterA** · 06-24-2012, 02:28 PM

Have you decided on the SME 20/3? I just upgraded from an SME 10 to an SME 30/12 with V-12 arm. I haven't heard the 20/3 but I suspect from reading the reviews, that the 20/3 is closer to the 30 than it is to the 10. It may be the highest value SME table right now. It should be excellent with your SME V arm. What cartridge will you be using?

**rockitman** · 06-24-2012, 06:06 PM

I prefer non suspended mass loaded tables like the innovation. The Graham Phantom Supreme is a match made in heaven for that table and many others..It is a superior arm to anything SME can come up with save for using an SME on an SME table. Not here to start a war....

**PeterA** · 06-24-2012, 06:32 PM

I certainly won't engage in a war. Everyone has opinions and preferences. I used to have the unsuspended SME 10 and found it benefitted greatly by being placed on a Vibraplane. Others have done so with Micro Seiki tables. I've never heard the Phantom in my system. It is an excellent arm based on the ones I've heard at shows and they are very popular arms.

I did do a direct comparison on my SME 30/12 between the SME V and V-12. The V-12 is quite a bit better. I read that Bob Graham does also offer a longer arm wand for those who want to lengthen the Phantom, but that he doesn't really believe it improves the arm. Just meeting consumer demand. I can't say for sure, it's just what I read on the net.

There are quite a few people who use either the SME 312S or the V-12 on other tables with great results. And of course there are many Phantoms on SME tables.

**MylesBAstor** · 06-24-2012, 06:38 PM

The one thing that bothers me about the SME arm is the inability to adjust azimuth. Sure you can shim, etc but it a kluge to a basic tonearm necessity.

As far as Bob, his reservation with the 12 inch arm is that alignment is more critical than with a shorter arm. With his alignment jig, I don't see how that's a problem.

**PeterA** · 06-24-2012, 06:55 PM

If azimuth adjustability is critical, then the SME 312S has both the advantage of the 12" length and the removable headshell for both easy cartridge swapping and azimuth adjustability.

I don't understand why alignment is more critical with a longer arm, but let's assume that is the case. I agree that Bob's jig, or any other properly designed protractor would solve the problem. It seems to me that the shorter arm with a more pronounced curve to the tracing arc would exasperate the problem of a poorly aligned cartridge, especially in the zenith direction, if the stylus is a line-contact type. Not so much if it is a conical stylus.

Also, I believe, if anti skate and VTA are slightly off, the longer the arm, the less a slight error matters. There is less skating force with a longer arm, if all else is the same and also different LP thicknesses effect VTA/SRA less with a longer arm.

**MylesBAstor** · 06-24-2012, 07:04 PM

Originally Posted by PeterA

If azimuth adjustability is critical, then the SME 312S has both the advantage of the 12" length and the removable headshell for both easy cartridge swapping and azimuth adjustability.

I don't understand why alignment is more critical with a longer arm, but let's assume that is the case. I agree that Bob's jig, or any other properly designed protractor would solve the problem. It seems to me that the shorter arm with a more pronounced curve to the tracing arc would exasperate the problem of a poorly aligned cartridge, especially in the zenith direction, if the stylus is a line-contact type. Not so much if it is a conical stylus.

Also, I believe, if anti skate and VTA are slightly off, the longer the arm, the less a slight error matters. There is less skating force with a longer arm, if all else is the same and also different LP thicknesses effect VTA/SRA less with a longer arm.

If I'm correct, the area of tangency is more affected/reduced with a 12 inch than a 9 inch arm if the cartridge is misaligned.