Our coverage has started:
http://www.soundstageglobal.com/ind...ent&view=section&layout=blog&id=17&Itemid=314
http://www.soundstageglobal.com/ind...ent&view=section&layout=blog&id=17&Itemid=314
Munich's High End 2012
- Thread starter Jeff Fritz
- Start date
BTW good to see Soundstage coverage in this months Hifi News publication for Montreal, and also seperate mention of the TWBAS in article-opinion page.
And with whatsbestforum having a mention as well in said article
Did not want to mention in its own thread as it may come across a bit too crass.
Cheers
Orb
And with whatsbestforum having a mention as well in said article
Did not want to mention in its own thread as it may come across a bit too crass.
Cheers
Orb
Guys, our coverage has concluded. There are four days of product coverage with captions; two extra photo galleries with various shots around the show; and seven articles including the last one just posted, "The Growing Disconnect Between High Fidelity and the High End."
Now it's time to kick back for the rest of the day before my flight back early in the morning. Hope you guys enjoy it.
Now it's time to kick back for the rest of the day before my flight back early in the morning. Hope you guys enjoy it.
Thanks for your coverage Jeff. I find your text "The Growing Disconnect Between High Fidelity and the High End " shows a partial diagnostic, but ignores the human side of high-end and mostly one of the most important rings in the chain - the high-end dealers. Perhaps the situation is different in the USA than in Europe, but here the connection between the high-end manufacturers and the consumers is made mostly through the distributor, that due to the small size of the market is also the dealer.
Shows , reviewers and the net play an important part in the dissemination in high-end, but they are ephemeral - but the knowledgeable dealer who will be following and advising consumers during the lifetime of their systems will stay for long. Happily most of high end products are high quality -although there are plenty of exceptions as you pointed in your article. But , as I often say, being able to pick from this enormous lot of high quality, I buy mostly from those who have friendly dealers, that also join me for beers and dinners!
I think most reviewers understand the importance of the dealer/distributor. I think Jeff was taking a different direction in his op-ed article. He paints a far from rosy picture of our industry, one that Jack English similarly op-ed'd some 25 years ago... that it's over priced, under valued, over hyped, and full of charlatans and is thus dieing on the vine. I disagreed then and I do as well now. The industry is pure supply and demand. If a $20,000 power cord (in Jeff's belief) is ruining the market why then is the market so very vibrant (with more shows and more products than ever)? Why? Easy... someone is buying these products. We are in the midst of a great transfer of wealth in the world economy. You don't have to be a Wharton or Harvard Business School grad to figure that out. That man who loves audio and can afford an unknown maker's $20K cord now has an alternative to the established brands. He can have something very unique and if he enjoys it... great. We have a an economic multiplier. The man who makes and sells the cord can now either spend the money on consumables or invest the money in factors of production to make more cables to sell to more high net philes. What is so wrong with that? How does that "hurt" or damage the industry? Audio is a luxury product. You can opt out at anytime, buy some Bozaks and forget about all this. There is nothing wrong with the industry's current direction in my view. I think it's great for the global consumption economy.
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Your rebuttal here, Peter, is absurd.
Jeff points to a definitely relevant problem, covered by this statement:
Many companies just lack a cohesive message explaining how their products advance the high-fidelity reproduction of music and why audiophiles should spend their hard-earned money for them. Those answers should come at the outset before the first CNC machine even cranks up.
And this:
A quarter-million-dollar-plus pair of stereo speakers that use off-the-shelf drivers, have zero science and engineering behind them, and sound so screechy that they could turn hi-rez into MP3 need not apply!
All you offer, Peter, is that "audio is a luxury product" and that there is transfer of wealth going on.
Jeff is pointing out that high-end is increasingly relying on idiots to support the industry, and if there ever was a problem worth pondering, there's one for you.
Jeff points to a definitely relevant problem, covered by this statement:
Many companies just lack a cohesive message explaining how their products advance the high-fidelity reproduction of music and why audiophiles should spend their hard-earned money for them. Those answers should come at the outset before the first CNC machine even cranks up.
And this:
A quarter-million-dollar-plus pair of stereo speakers that use off-the-shelf drivers, have zero science and engineering behind them, and sound so screechy that they could turn hi-rez into MP3 need not apply!
All you offer, Peter, is that "audio is a luxury product" and that there is transfer of wealth going on.
Jeff is pointing out that high-end is increasingly relying on idiots to support the industry, and if there ever was a problem worth pondering, there's one for you.
I go with peter if there is a market why not , but i see jeffs point also , luckily there is enough quality also , you just need to know where to spend what .
I personally rather see a distributor /dealer sticking all this cable/accesorie money in a decent tapemachine or something like that , to give a nice show expirience.
Tape is not demonstrated with overhere , it would drag me to go to a show .
These oversmoothed audiophile music /cd/ streamersystems dont encourage me to visit a show , if i put on some real world music i dont know where it leaves them
I personally rather see a distributor /dealer sticking all this cable/accesorie money in a decent tapemachine or something like that , to give a nice show expirience.
Tape is not demonstrated with overhere , it would drag me to go to a show .
These oversmoothed audiophile music /cd/ streamersystems dont encourage me to visit a show , if i put on some real world music i dont know where it leaves them
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And that's why I state that Peter's input is absurd, as Jeff clearly states that there are several high-quality high-end providers, but that their messages often get drowned out by the nonsense spouted by others.
And it is telling that the media doesn't care about the world's largest audio-show, according to Jeff.
Guys, there is a difference of opinion here. I will preemptively say that we need to keep this discussion civil, professional and cordial. Abuse of the terms and conditions of this board will not be tolerated. That said, continue on but be rest assured that we will be watching very closely.
Yeah but has the media ever done that , i dont think so .
Most quality high end is simply to expensive for a mass market approach . less people attract less media , in some ways the whole high end thing is more like a " cult" thing
Most quality high end is simply to expensive for a mass market approach . less people attract less media , in some ways the whole high end thing is more like a " cult" thing
In every business there are bad guys and good guys. As a consumer, my feeling is that in high end the number of good guys (manufacturers) overcome by a large margin the bad ones.
As always, statistical analysis is mandatory. If some one manufactures something that is disaster, rents some space in a show to exhibit it and tries to sell it for a quarter of a million it is not a high-end crisis. However if this guy manages to sell twenty units, something must be wrong for many reasons!
As always, statistical analysis is mandatory. If some one manufactures something that is disaster, rents some space in a show to exhibit it and tries to sell it for a quarter of a million it is not a high-end crisis. However if this guy manages to sell twenty units, something must be wrong for many reasons!
If the moderators permit my boldness... can Jeff or Soundproof please cite examples of these wrongs? Just who are these charlatans? If one makes broad sweeping judgements then one must, at the very least, cite the numerous data points to arrive at said conclusions, Peter Beltism, phone-in system upgrades, notwithstanding
Since the thread is not about the state of the industry, I will not press much . I simply hope Peter re-read his post .. A reviewer claiming that the High End Audio Industry is doing so well, is at least intriguing . Care to bring us some numbers Peter? I would say that I take a different view. A few companies making money doesn't make an entire industry "vibrant".
Back to the Munich Audio Show which by the way I like a lot, very different atmosphere than many other shows I have been to.
Frantz, I'll bite...
Double the shows ...
North America data points:
2005 Shows: CES, T.H.E. Show, SS&I, RMAF (second year), Home Entertainment 2005.
2011 Shows: CES, T.H.E Show LV, SS&I, Axpona Atlanta, Axpona NY, Audiokarma Show, the San Fransisco Show, T.H.E Show Newport Beach, Capital Audio Fest, wow, there's a lot... and of course, RMAF.
If I missed any, please correct me. Seems to me that the industry's growth and awareness is robust. I'd call it very vibrant.
I can't understand why everyone gets so polarized by all this. If company A makes a product that consumer B buys and enjoys why is there so much angst with company A and ridicule rained down upon consumer B?
Double the shows ...
North America data points:
2005 Shows: CES, T.H.E. Show, SS&I, RMAF (second year), Home Entertainment 2005.
2011 Shows: CES, T.H.E Show LV, SS&I, Axpona Atlanta, Axpona NY, Audiokarma Show, the San Fransisco Show, T.H.E Show Newport Beach, Capital Audio Fest, wow, there's a lot... and of course, RMAF.
If I missed any, please correct me. Seems to me that the industry's growth and awareness is robust. I'd call it very vibrant.
I can't understand why everyone gets so polarized by all this. If company A makes a product that consumer B buys and enjoys why is there so much angst with company A and ridicule rained down upon consumer B?
Peter, it is a fairly common belief in the industry at present that the regional audio shows are a result of disappearing high-end dealers and that they provide a vehicle for manufacturers to reach the consumers that they cannot without a robust dealer network -- the kind that does not exist in NA any longer. I just spent four days talking to hundreds in the industry.
I'll let my article speak for itself but you are drawing a false conclusion here.
Or is it a result of manufacturers not being able to break into markets? It boggles my brain that cj and Martin-Logan don't have a dealer in Manhattan and Rowland only recently after being closed out for years
And Boulder and Rockport only recently took on a Manhattan dealer.Or is it a result of manufacturers not being able to break into markets? It boggles my brain that cj and Martin-Logan don't have a dealer in Manhattan and Rowland only recently after being closed out for years
Interesting question . . . are you suggesting that these shows are being held primarily for local dealers that are looking for new lines?
Jeff, I'm with Myles on this one. I believe it is too hard for (new and existing) manufacturers to gain new dealers, especially the elite ones. There are so many new products coming to market... and that folks, is vibrancy. It's stale news that shows are a result of a shrinking dealer base... I assert that shows are a result of a more efficient business model. Kinda like regional gun shows (big business, BTW) replacing ma and pa gun shops. BTW, great coverage from Jeff!
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