Hmmm...

[Soundproof]

Good post.

You'd like this one. Direct to disc, 45 rpm. Going to play it now.

That's the cutter they used on the left - I pity the orchestra, and their many takes.
The brochure goes into extravagant detail about the process employed to secure the result.
Neumann SX-74 cutter head.

Under very exceptional circumstances, when the shortcomings of vinyl are sought dealt with, and the artists are willing to endure near torture conditions as editing is impossible, then the direct to disk process can produce astonishing sonic results.
There are details and string involutions here that I have never heard from regularly produced vinyl with comparable string music.

[MylesBAstor]

In my experience, I don't see how the raw master tape (Even a Safety dup) can be pressed to vinyl w/o some subtractive eq especially in the bass region. The needle would jump out of the grooves. In this area (Bass extension), I feel RTR gets the nod in general if you are comparing the best versions in each format.

Having played a lacquer and then the LP, there are tremendous subtractive issues going on.

[FrantzM]

Having played a lacquer and then the LP, there are tremendous subtractive issues going on.

English please?

[jtinn]

What I find funny is that everyone who has not heard the comparison in Mike's room is arguing, as I would, that it is not possible.

Those who have visited his room agree with Mike.

I'm just saying...

[Soundproof]

What I find funny is that everyone who has not heard the comparison in Mike's room is arguing, as I would, that it is not possible.

Those who have visited his room agree with Mike.

I'm just saying...

You're not really saying much, IMO. Just editorializing, if that.
Great that it sounds good!

[cjfrbw]

Editorializing and epiphanizing. I'll take a dozen!

[MylesBAstor]

English please?

One loses a tremendous amount of information in going through all the steps required to manufacture a record eg. plating and pressing. Granted some of these steps continue to be improved (such as having the plating and pressing facilities under one roof) but the issues still exist.

[Mike Lavigne]

In my experience, I don't see how the raw master tape (Even a Safety dup) can be pressed to vinyl w/o some subtractive eq especially in the bass region. The needle would jump out of the grooves. In this area (Bass extension), I feel RTR gets the nod in general if you are comparing the best versions in each format.

in actuality, the most heavily modulated grooves on an Lp are with high frequencies, not low. that is what the R.I.A.A. curve does. and it's because of what you say, deep impactful bass notes un-equalized would make the stylus jump. so groove modulation, where the stylus drag can affect the speed of the record, is most evidant on groove sections with lots of high frequencies.

[MylesBAstor]

in actuality, the most heavily modulated grooves on an Lp are with high frequencies, not low. that is what the R.I.A.A. curve does. and it's because of what you say, deep impactful bass notes un-equalized would make the stylus jump. so groove modulation, where the stylus drag can affect the speed of the record, is most evidant on groove sections with lots of high frequencies.

Mike, I'd have to say that the mastering engineers have always played with the low frequencies, eg reducing them, monoing, summing, etc. I'll have to find some interesting conversations with a mastering engineer about the ins and outs of remastering. I learned an awful lot or ?

And part of the superiority of 45 rpm pressings

[MylesBAstor]

Myles B. Astor
Interesting! I've gotten some 15 ips copies of some rock such as Steely Dan and Yes and it's shocking how much they messed the transfer up--even when compared to say George Piros' work (who was in my book a genius).

August 19, 2011Wor Mastering
this is from remasters especially
I feel the messups came from the limiting amplifiers and not setting the vertical phase rotation properly
when in doby, leave them 30/90
doubt
but how many cutting engineers even know what vertical phase rotation is, let alone how to use it??
the newbees say "mono the bottom" (the horror
Laura brought in the pizza, it has to cool--
\too hot now

August 19, 2011Myles B. Astor
What do you mean by vertical phase rotation?

August 19, 2011Wor Mastering
The stylus sees augmentation from each channel as "lift" and if both channels are out of phase on the bottom, you can litterly squeeze the stylus upward and out of the groove-To circumvent thos from occuring, you rotate phase below a certain frequency (I like 120Hz) 30 degrees laterial and 90 degrees vertical and this is barely audible but no way a stylus can be pushed too far upward

August 19, 2011Wor Mastering
this not thos

August 19, 2011Myles B. Astor
I understand -- to prevent groove narrowing right?

August 19, 2011Wor Mastering
it is mearly a way to rotate the bottom end phase to keep the stylus properly aligned during high modulation bottom end passages
right!
but the status quo is suggesting monoing all bottom below say 180hz
This is insanity but so many subscribe to it. Look up Phase rotation by Orban
In FM transmissions, phase rotation is used to keep the modulation from overswinging
you want to keep it +/- 100KHZ
50 is better
it is frequency modulation so the modulation swings can move wildly +/- if you dont rotate phase, the orban optimod does this for every FM broadcast, doing it correctly will be inaudible
Overmodulation from FM yields less distance for the signal

August 19, 2011Myles B. Astor
Yes seem to remember reading about Orban along time ago; will have to look it up again.

August 19, 2011Wor Mastering
the numbers on the phase rotator is not absolute degrees, it is a "scale"
kind of like the numbers on a volume control
even dB numbers can be off--but the 1-10 numbers, just a self reference-
33cm/sec is a hot album
Telarc 80041 (1812) first issue passed 120cm/sec
Shures, Stanton 881S, could cope
Cannons---

August 19, 2011Myles B. Astor
At least back then....

August 19, 2011Wor Mastering
m91ed could track 100cm/sec at 1g
it was the "trackingist" cartridge ever made LOL
It could stay planted no matter what
even the v15's suffered some with those levels
m95 could not cope
I've turned turntables at 45 degree angles with an m91ed, and it stayed

August 19, 2011Myles B. Astor
Can't believe you screen the LP. 'Course back then who knew about cartridge alignment and have the tools available today for azimuth, zenith, tracking force, etc.

August 19, 2011Wor Mastering
we did study it to the best of our ability, we could get close by ear
vertical tracking angle and overhang you could get very close
force and anti-skid was also reliable
the mids would certainly change with wrong vta
change it for different thickness of vinyl--all the time

August 19, 2011Myles B. Astor