A ADDAC and Server for My Vinyl

astrotoy

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May 24, 2010
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Last year in June I attended the Computer Audiophile Symposium in Berkeley to see what was the state of the art in consumer digital and to see a demo of the new Amarra system which could rip vinyl into hirez digital. As you can see from my profile, I have a very large collection of classical vinyl (about 15K records in all) and tapes (about 600 in total). I want to be able to pass this on to future generations in a very high quality, but easy to access and play format. This led me to an almost year long quest for a system to do that and also to play the various digital sources that I have and will acquire. These include about 1200 CD's that I have already ripped into wav files, and the hirez Reference Recording master files (176/24), hirez (96/24 and 192/24) files from the High Definition Tape Tracks, the Boston Symphony 96/24 flac and aiff files, HD Tracks and other hirez digital files. I engaged Tim Marutani, a local SF Bay Area audio consultant (Tim was a major sponsor of the CA Symposium) to guide me on this quest which is almost complete. On the way, Tim engaged two mastering engineers whom I knew from their involvement with the Tape Project, Paul Stubblebine and Mike Romonowski to help this process. He also introduced me to Art Kelm, a consultant who specializes in designing and modifying electrical systems for the lowest possible noise.

The first major effort came in the fall, when Art, working with a local electrician, created a new power supply for my system, starting with rewiring from the box to my system, with a new ground (literally pounded into the ground outside my home) and a massive box to isolate the electrical connections. He also provided me with two of the longest power strips I had ever seen - 24 outlets on each. One for all my analogue connections and the other for all my digital. The biggest component in terms of power consumption, the Velodyne DD-18 powered sub was connected directly into the box. The result of this is that my system is now dead quiet. With my 103 db sensitive Avantgarde Duos, all I hear with my ear up to the horn is a very quiet tube rush from the amp and preamp. There is absolutely no hum. Art measures everything and the potential from system to ground is over 10 times lower than before he started. What a difference. Art's company is called Ground One. Not cheap, but a very fine result.

The next step has been to identify the best sounding ADDAC (one that both converts analogue to digital and plays back digital to analogue). It took quite a while for Tim to assemble everything together - the universe of the top quality ADDAC's has had some new entries in the past year and each one has either unique or several combinations of computer, software and sound card. Finally, in early May (about 3 weeks ago) Tim assembled at my home 5 different ADDAC's, three different computers with two different sound cards and three different software packages. The ADDACs were the MSB, JCF (limited production recommended by Doug Sax), Amarra 4, Sphynx (aka Digital Audio Denmark) and for reference, the 10 year old Pacific Microsonics Model Two (a professional unit developed by Keith Johnson of Reference Records and Spectrum Audio and others and still used today by many of the top recording and mastering engineers). Tim also brought along 3 different computers to use. A Mac G5 running on Tiger with Lynx AES Card and Sound Blade Software, a Zalman PC with a Mykerinos Card and Pyramix software, and another Mac G5 running Leopard or Snow Leopard with Lynx card and Pure Vinyl software. Tim also brought along a Berkeley Audio Alpha DAC for playback only in addition to the Model Two which was used for recording and playback. We captured three different vinyl selections, all at 192/24, with each ADDAC and with most we used differnt combinations of computer/sfotware and sound card. Paul Stubblebine was the person leading the capture. One of the three vinyl was a lacquer that Paul cut specifically for the test, from a master digital file of a Reference Recording that Paul had mastered. Another was the Famous Blue Raincoat cut from the 45 rpm version of the album and the beginning of the 1950's Decca recording of Espana. We used the Speakers Corner reissue, since we had to use RIAA EQ on all the vinyl. Tim brought a Boulder phono pre to use so we would have a balanced output required by all the ADDAC's. Also attending the session were Chris Connaker, editor of Computer Audiophile - who will be writing up his impressions of the two days and Maier Shadi, an audio dealer from LA. This kind of comparison is not trivial to set up or to execute. So it took much of one day to bring the equipment in and test that everything was working. The second day was spent in doing the actual recording. Even after setting up and testing the first day, there were various issues with hardware, cables, drivers that took a lot of time to sort out. So I now have sympathy with reviewers who get criticized for not trying this or that combination. Not easy to do.

Bottom line so far:
ADDAC of Choice:
What is clear is that hands down, no questions, the best ADDAC by far was the Pacific Microsonics Model Two. The bad news - there were only about 150 of these made and many of the critical parts are no longer manufactured. Also most of the 150 are in the hands of recording and mastering engineers - who use multiple units for multichannerl recording and mastering. You will see in Keith Johnson's notes in his Reference Recording HRx files that he uses 4 Model Twos (I believe for eight mic channels of input) on one of his recordings. So the Model Two's are as scarce as hen's teeth. The great news (for me) is that Tim was able to locate a Model Two, which now sits in my system. We will be listening to the playback files some more to determine what a second choice would be.

BTW, for playback comparing the Model Two to the Berkeley Alpha DAC (interestly the Berkeley folks are mostly the same people that developed the Model Two), the Berkeley acquitted itself very well, but was definitely a notch below the Model Two in quality. For my daughter and son-in-law who would be playing back only, the Berkeley Alpha DAC is probably what I would get for them.

Capturing Platform of Choice:
This one is very interesting. At this point, we haven't reached a final decision, but this looks like the best. Sound Blade (which is the pro version of the Amarra) software running with a Mac G5 and Tiger OS and a Lynx AES card. The good news is that even though the G5/Tiger combo is three generations old - they are very easy to get on the used market. The Lynx card is also easy to get as is Sound Blade.

Playback Platform of Choice:
Again, no final decisions yet, but it looks like Pyramix software with a Mykerinos card running on a PC with XP Pro OS - I think (Tim was using the fanless Zalman with a solid state drive). The good news here is that everything is easy to get. The bad news is that the Mykerinos card is very expensive.

I will have the Sound Blade/Lynx/G5 system in my home next week to test out, followed by the Pyramix/Mykerinos/Zalman PC. The G5 is not the quietest computer, but for capturing that is not an issue. However, I would like to use the same system for capturing and playing back, so I will compare the Sound Blade/Lynx/G5 system to the Pyramix/Mykerinos/Zalman PC for both capturing and playback and then probably choose one or the other.

Finally I am looking at software that will allow me to judiciously clean up some of my vinyl - the odd scratch, tick or pop or maybe some surface noise, without affecting the music to any audible degree. There is a lot of development going on right now in this area and by the time I am ready to do this, the software development will probably be there. Right now, I may try Pure Vinyl to see whether that works. I would need another Mac with a Leopard/Snow Leopard OS to use Pure Vinyl, however.

Storage:
To store 7-10K records captured at 192/24 will require on the order of 10-20TB. Fortunately it will also take me the better part of a decade to do this. Right now, the cheapest, safe way to go looks like storing on a NAS drive box with Raid 5 configuration and perhaps 7 2TB hard drives - six for 10TB of storage and redundancy and 1 spare for hot swapping. This would be the cheapest part of the project, at about $2K. I would actually record using a solid state drive which appears to have to best sound, and then dump files as they are completed onto the NAS box. By the time I need more storage, the drives will probably be 4-10TB each and solid state, for the same price we are paying for regular drives.

Human Interface:
Using this system for capture, one has to learn how to use parts of a very complex system. However, since I will be capturing vinyl and tapes and not doing mastering, the menus will be all set up and I will be doing the same thing over and over again. For playback, the Model Two does not automatically change to different sampling rates, so is not the most user friendly system. However, it does produce the best sound, so I can live with changing the settings as needed - less work than putting a record on a turntable. However, for others, like my wife and daughter and son-in-law, having a DAC that automatically changes sample rates and a front end with a touch screen to find and play - like the iPad demo I saw or the Sooloos system, would be really fantastic. For 192/24, I am told that this is coming.

All in all, I have been very, very impressed with the quality of the capture and playback of this system in the digital realm. It isn't cheap - think a nice, new mid level luxury car. But compared to the cost of my vinyl collection and the time I intend to take to do the captures (the greater part of a decade), it is, for me, a reasonable investment.

Hope you have found this interesting.

Thanks, Larry
 
Last edited:

MylesBAstor

Well-Known Member
Apr 20, 2010
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New York City
Wow, you have patience Larry :)
 

Ron Party

WBF Founding Member
Apr 30, 2010
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Oakland, CA
Very impressive. I admire and respect your diligence. I have no doubt you and your lineage are going to reap significant benefits from your trail blazing. Isn't it wonderful to have such talented personnel right here in our own backyard.

I am curious abut one point (well, honestly, many but I'll address only one for now):

Bottom line so far:
ADDAC of Choice:
What is clear is that hands down, no questions, the best ADDAC by far was the Pacific Microsonics Model Two. <snip> BTW, for playback comparing the Model Two to the Berkeley Alpha DAC (interestly the Berkeley folks are mostly the same people that developed the Model Two), the Berkeley acquitted itself very well, but was definitely a notch below the Model Two in quality. <snip>

Capturing Platform of Choice:
This one is very interesting. At this point, we haven't reached a final decision, but this looks like the best. Sound Blade (which is the pro version of the Amarra) software running with a Mac G5 and Tiger OS and a Lynx AES card. The good news is that even though the G5/Tiger combo is three generations old - they are very easy to get on the used market. The Lynx card is also easy to get as is Sound Blade.

Larry, how did you (and the others) make these two determinations?
 

Jay_S

WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
309
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San Francisco - East Bay
Hi Larry,

That was an interesting read. Great to see you posting here. I'll be interested in hearing how your workflow will ultimately work out. How long will it take to finish one LP? I've digitized just a few LPs, with much less sophisticated equipment. It has worked out well, but seems to be very time consuming. The process got bogged down when I manually cut out the clicks and pops. Keep us updated on your progress.

Jay
 

Bruce B

WBF Founding Member, Pro Audio Production Member
Apr 25, 2010
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Too bad you couldn't have tested the Pyramix MassCore system in DSD128fs or DXD. That's what we use and have found nothing better.

A couple years ago FIM produced an album recorded from vinyl on Mike Lavigne's rig. We had the Pacific Microsonics 2 going against the Digital Audio Denmark AX24 in DXD. The bass was a little tighter on the Model 2 (HDCD?) but we felt that everything above 200Hz was better on the AX24.

For anyone really getting into vinyl archiving, the best unit I've heard for under $10k is the Korg MR2000s at DSD5.6. It's the Bee's Knees!

Regards,
 
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FrantzM

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
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Astrotoy

A question: How does the Digitized version compare to the Vinyl? I will ask another question later. Congratulations for such an undertaking ...

Frantz
 

Bruce B

WBF Founding Member, Pro Audio Production Member
Apr 25, 2010
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Astrotoy
A question: How does the Digitized version compare to the Vinyl? I will ask another question later. Congratulations for such an undertaking ...
Frantz

You need to ask Mike L. about his "adventure" recording vinyl with John Ellison! Though when we did record to DSD it was a 50/50 guess between the 2.


Regards,
 

Ammitsboel

New Member
Jun 23, 2010
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I will soon be testing Pyramix with the Mykerinos card for capture and playback.
Astrotoy and Bruce B, are you able to provide some test tracks on the web for download?
I'm very interested in hearing both Pyramix and Sonic in a test with just a signal though an AES-EBU loop on each DAW.
If that's possible I would be very pleased to listen to the tracks and tell you what DAW it is from each file, without knowing beforehand.

Regards
Henrik
 

Bruce B

WBF Founding Member, Pro Audio Production Member
Apr 25, 2010
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Do you mean a DA/AD loop instead? If that's what you want, certainly. Will you provide a file or do you want us to? What sample rate? I can do 44.1 to 384k or DSD5.6


Regards,
 

Bruce B

WBF Founding Member, Pro Audio Production Member
Apr 25, 2010
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Snohomish, WA
www.pugetsoundstudios.com
Hi Bruce,
No it's just the AES-EBU loop I want to hear it that's ok with you.
Best Regards
Henrik

I don't see the point in going out digitally and coming back digitally. If that's what you want, it can certainly be easily done. No problem.


Regards,
 

mep

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
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Larry,
What a massive undertaking. I enjoyed reading about the journey you went through. I for one wouldn't want to spend 10 years of my life converting analog files to digital. That almost sounds like a prison sentence to me. I understand your heirs might not appreciate or take care of the real music you are converting. Too bad. Can I be in your will? I promise I will take care of your analog music and give it a loving home.

Mark
 

Ammitsboel

New Member
Jun 23, 2010
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I don't see the point in going out digitally and coming back digitally. If that's what you want, it can certainly be easily done. No problem.
I don't know the cause, but I hear differences in digital transfers over AES-EBU with different interfaces.
I'll be very happy if you could do a digital AES-EBU transfer on both Pyramix and Sonic.

If you for some reason don't like to post links to download here, my email is ammitsbol at mac dot com.
 

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