Who's the king of the flat panels?

rsbeck · Apr 22, 2010

I haven't shopped for one in a few years.

The last time I was shopping, for me, the choice was clear, if you were willing to pay the premium, Pioneer plasmas had the best picture hands down. They offered two market segments; their regular line-up and their Elite models. Truth be told, it seemed like the real geeks had taken them apart and had discovered the biggest difference besides price was really just some cosmetics, some picture tweakage features the average joe would be unlikely to use and a name plate.

So, the deal was to get the non-Elite consumer model.

Since then, LCD has risen, Pioneer plasmas have gone the way of bell-bottom Levis and I wouldn't know where to start in today's marketplace.

I've got to believe there are others around just like me or at least sort of like me.

Help a brother out.

Who's the new King of the Flat Panels?

Sharp 1080 · Apr 22, 2010

I've been very pleased with my Panasonic 50 inch plasma. I've owned Elite (RPTV) before and loved the colors and black levels. Compared the Elite Plasmas and the Panasonic gets pretty close and was cheaper. All of them have terrible external speakers.

Steve Williams · Apr 22, 2010

I must admit that I am liking Sharp Aquos and Samsung recently

amirm · Apr 22, 2010

Sadly, there is no "king" out there. LCDs are a game of which artifact you can put up with best. And the trend this year is worse: lower cost products and thinner wins over performance.

A bit of primer. LCDs natively don't have great blacks/contrast. The polarization filter does not fully block light when it is told to do so. The fix is to change the amount of light going through the panel. If you could do that on a per-pixel basis, then you would be golden. But putting 2 millions separate light sources is out of question cost wise. So companies put 128/256 range of light regions in the so called "local dimming LED" LCD (note: "LED" here only means light source is LED the set is still LCD). Problem then is that when that region lights up and you only have a a few pixels of interest, you get halos around it.

To make sets thin, you have to move the LEDs to the edge. Once you do, you get non-uniform lighting because it tends to be brighter at the edge and less so farther away from it.

Note that in both cases, the set's viewing angle becomes sharply lower. If you look at the set sideways, then the picture quality changes and sometimes dramatically so.

Then there is the issue of glossy screens. I can't stand them. The reflections drive me crazy. They took one of the biggest benefits of LCD over plasma with matt screens and threw that away! Very few sets are left that come without glossy treatment

To reduce costs, companies seem to have moved away from backlit local dimming. Samsung for example, no longer offers one this year, despite building what people thought was the best example of that in the form of B8500.

I have high hopes for the Sharp newer sets. But reviews are not out yet and I have not yet tested one myself. We should know more in the next 2-3 months how the 2010 sets rate against each other.

Gregadd · Apr 22, 2010

"...Pioneer plasmas had the best picture hands down. .."rsbeck I agree but it at times the picture is surreal. I think Samsung gets the nod form a lot of consumer mags like consumer reports and PC magazine. i always liked the Sharp LCD.

rsbeck · Apr 22, 2010

That's great info guys. What are the most highly anticipated flat screens coming out? Can we develop a watch list?

FrantzM · Apr 28, 2010

Hi

Aside from Panasonic .. Are there any plasmas out there?... I don't like what I have seen fro the LCDs so far ..

Frantz

RBFC · Apr 28, 2010

I've read a few blurbs stating that the 2D performance of the new generation of 3D panels is outstanding. I'll be watching this closely.

Lee

rsbeck · Apr 28, 2010

Excellent -- Keep us updated! The new Panasonic plasmas look interesting just from I've read....

RBFC · Apr 28, 2010

rsbeck said:
! The new Panasonic plasmas look interesting just from I've read....

I've heard this as well. It might be prudent to wait one generation to allow the technology to debug and come down in price a bit.

Lee

rhopkins · May 11, 2010

Hi,

I've been looking for a new one too and I came across the NuVision FX5LS. Outstanding picture quality, brightness and contrast. We are going to compare it directly against the best Panasonic 2010 panel and then decide. Right now I think the NuVision panel wins easily in brightness and detail. I've never seen a panel so detailed actually...

Rick

amirm · May 11, 2010

Nuvision does get great write ups and since it is designed for the Pro channel, is easy to calibrate. The issue with it though is cost. Because they are made in small quantities, they cost quite a bit more. I am curious as to whether people would pay the premium. Have you looked that price and are OK with it?

vinylphilemag · May 11, 2010

Oh, TV flat panels. There was I expecting some sort of MartinLogan vs Magneplaner vs Quad flame fest...

rhopkins · May 12, 2010

NuVision Pricing

Hi,

I've looked into the NuVision pricing and the list is higher although not ridiculously so compared to the best Panasonic. The question really is the improvement in picture quality worth the extra dollars, assuming I prefer the NuVision panel over the Panasonic. At first I wasn't sure but the more I studied it, the more I realized this panel was doing things that no other panel I have ever seen was doing. In terms of detail and brightness it's so obvious there's no contest. In terms of color I'm less certain. Plasma always came out in front here but gosh, from what I could see in the showroom, the NuVision had outstanding color.

I'm only really going to be able to tell easily when they are side-by-side. Then, one will win and the cost won't really matter if the differences are that obvious.

Rick

amirm · May 12, 2010

Thanks. Love to hear if anyone else is open to pay more for extra quality in flat panels.

rhopkins · May 12, 2010

I remember when the first flat panels were out and the cost was something like $30,000 for a 50" version. They looked pretty good but next to what I bought at the time - a Loewe 30" Aconda - they couldn't hold a candle. The CRT was better in every category except thinness...

So now that the Loewe's coil is going south (a good ten years later - they had a great picture but weren't terribly reliable in the long run) I'm looking around to see what's out there. I was pleasantly surprised. I expected some terrible picture and low brightness along with washed out blacks but instead I see a great picture from the NuVision that easily beats the Loewe and I'm pretty sure it beats the Panasonic.

The only thing I'm holding back on is the issue of color. Here the Panasonic might have an edge but, it might not... Can't tell until they are in the same room, side by side and the dealer is setting that up when the latest Panasonic panels arrive.

For me, regardless of the product, if the quality is there and can be proven I'll gladly open my wallet. If not, I'll move on. I'm beginning to think that I'm in a very small minority these days though.

Johnny Vinyl · May 19, 2010

I'm suprised the issue of proper calibration hasn't been brought forth. Regardless of technology (Plasma/LCD or Pro/Consumer models), your brand-spanking new HDTV isn't going to display any content properly without it. Unless your walking into a really high-end dealer that has professionally calibrated their display models, you'll never really know what your buying.

John

MylesBAstor · May 19, 2010

John72953 said:
I'm suprised the issue of proper calibration hasn't been brought forth. Regardless of technology (Plasma/LCD or Pro/Consumer models), your brand-spanking new HDTV isn't going to display any content properly without it. Unless your walking into a really high-end dealer that has professionally calibrated their display models, you'll never really know what your buying.

John

John you are oh so right! And every brand is off in different ways!

rhopkins · May 25, 2010

The dealer who is representing the NuVision Panel states that they calibrate it to some standard that is above and beyond THX, but I'm not sure what that is. It most likely contributes a huge amount to the quality of the picture although they calibrate all of their other screens that are custom installs.

I'm going to travel out there sometime soon and I'll try to write down what calibration standard they are using.

Chizzap30 · Jun 29, 2010

I would say it depends on what you are referring to for the title of "king". If it's based of accuracy and picture quality, I can easily say that the Runco OPAL Plasma is hands down the winner with all the current plasma manufacturers. They produce a much better black level than the current Panasonics, colors are much more accurate. It really is like looking in a window. I am currently a 9G Pioneer owner, but when it goes, I know where I'll be looking.

Who's the king of the flat panels?

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