Anyone familiar with TW Acustic or Basis, or compare the two?

zermatt

Well-Known Member
Oct 5, 2010
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I use an AC3 and I use a strobe to check the speed about every 2 months. In the last six months I have only had to adjust the speed by a very small amount. My belt is about 3 years young.
I no not get the sense that the table slows down music. I am very happy with the sound but I bet the Black night motor does improve the over all presentation making the sound stage wider and deeper. It's a high torque motor design. One can add that to the AC 3 for about the cost of new Titan cartridge.
 

zermatt

Well-Known Member
Oct 5, 2010
90
9
913
wash dc
I just auditioned the new 3 motor assembly from TW. This is a major upgrade to the tables performance. It pulls you in a you way that forget about the "daily grind". I do plan to purchase one. I have also reoriented my 3 motors so that all 3 motors are on the left side and in a v-pattern, this configuration also greatly enhances the performance form the stock configuration but its not equivalent to the new motor assembly.
 

JackD201

WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
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Manila, Philippines
Has anybody tried the new AC3 platter built like that of the Black Knight?
 

XV-1

Well-Known Member
May 24, 2010
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Sydney
Congrats Zermatt. Where are the photo's?

How much is the BN motor?

You should try the BN platter, or at least the new bearing - its is very nice as well

9325868642_8284c14b3e_b.jpg

9325836730_a2d60f7e88_b.jpg
 

zermatt

Well-Known Member
Oct 5, 2010
90
9
913
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Turntable;

The US retail is 5.5k. So it is very expensive. I really love the improvement. I bet it would make "Syntax a believer! Ha -ha. Tell about the platter upgrade?
 

XV-1

Well-Known Member
May 24, 2010
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Has anybody tried the new AC3 platter built like that of the Black Knight?

see photo's above Jack . It is actually a Black Knight platter as an upgrade for the AC series.

Turntable;

The US retail is 5.5k. So it is very expensive. I really love the improvement. I bet it would make "Syntax a believer! Ha -ha. Tell about the platter upgrade?


Syntax, who cares :) Personally I have been able to hold the speed with one or three motors.

The BN platter upgrade is twice as heavy as the standard Raven AC platter coming in at 20kg's. The new bearing runs smoother is seems quieter than the old Raven bearing giving you a slightly more neutral presence with better "black" background.

I am currently running the table with one motor and that seems to be a little more energetic in timing than with 3 motors. 3 motors was slightly more relaxed and larger soundstage. I will go back to 3 motors in a week or so to confirm. Only trouble with the 3 motors is with the heavy 20kg platter, it does take a while with some slippage for the motors to come up to speed, or you just use your hand to give them a helping hand. that is how freely the new bearing runs.

And, the BN platter looks cool with all the copper - good homage to Micro Seiki :)
 

XV-1

Well-Known Member
May 24, 2010
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Turntable

In your photo of the two platters the Black Night platter looks taller. Is it just the photo, or is it taller.

I think it is just the photo. I don't recall the BN platter any taller. An Optical illusion I think due to all the copper and the angle.
 

XV-1

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May 24, 2010
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zermatt

Well-Known Member
Oct 5, 2010
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Turntable, I would be interested to see your impressions. In my system, it still retains that AC3 smoothness but adds much more harmonic density in the imaging. It does not match the 3 motor assembly performance which is a bummer. Here is the 3 motor pic: IMG_4307.jpg
 

Suteetat

New Member
Sep 3, 2013
42
1
0
Bangkok
Hi, I also recently upgraded from Raven AC-1 to the Black Knight 3 motors unit. At least in comparison to 1 motor, there is no contest. However, I never tried the 3 separate motors configuration though as I don't have enough room on my Minus-K for 3 separate motors but just enough room to squeeze in 3 motors unit while keeping Minus-K balanced. I burrowed the 3 motors unit from a friend of mine to see if it would fit on my Minus-K and had a quick listen for an evening and it did not take much convincing that I want this upgrade motors. Mine finally arrived a week ago and I find it is a significant upgrade over one motor. The image is better focused, more detail and separation of instruments. The biggest improvement I found though is in the bass. Bass is tighter, a lot more detail, better attack.
May be next year, I will have to save up for the copper platter but I will have to do something about the additional weight as it may go over Minus-K weight limit.
 

jackelsson

Well-Known Member
Dec 1, 2013
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Hi, I have been living with the three motor unit now for several months and still think it's a huge step up from the single motor. Never heard the three separate motors in comparison though. In regard to what the three motor unit does there is not much to add to what Suteetat wrote two years ago:

I find it is a significant upgrade over one motor. The image is better focused, more detail and separation of instruments. The biggest improvement I found though is in the bass. Bass is tighter, a lot more detail, better attack.

Only other comment I would maybe add to that is that the imaging has also become wider and deeper.
 

microstrip

VIP/Donor
May 30, 2010
20,806
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Portugal
Anymore comments on the TW triple motor unit now that it has been available for a while now. Long term users have your opinions changed?

I have read recently in an audio forum about someone who preferred the two motor to the three motors - but I do not remember who posted it anymore.
There was a thread on Audiogon on it some years ago: https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/why-three-motors
 

pcosta

Well-Known Member
Jul 25, 2010
364
123
950
Windsor, Ontario, Canada
I have read recently in an audio forum about someone who preferred the two motor to the three motors - but I do not remember who posted it anymore.
There was a thread on Audiogon on it some years ago: https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/why-three-motors

microstrip

I read that thread you mention. I believe they are talking about individual motors two vrs three, and not the triple motor like the Black Night version.
 

jackelsson

Well-Known Member
Dec 1, 2013
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One thing should be mentioned though: although the three motor unit is fortunately not much heavier than the single motor (think balancing air suspended platforms here) it is obviously much larger in diameter. So if you are using multiple tonearms on all four positions with the AC, like I do, you will find yourself not being able to run a 9" arm at the front left position anymore. The armboard just can't get close enough to the platter anymore because the motor housing is in the way. Having said that 12" arms are not a problem.
 

Grooves

Well-Known Member
Feb 29, 2012
152
0
323
Pacific Northwest
I have owned an LP12/Lingo then a Michell Orbe SE, and now a TW Acustic Raven Two (since 2012). I have heard the Basis 2500 (years ago) when contemplating the Michell Orbe. I wasn't able to compare them side-by-side. I went with the Michell but maybe should have gone with the Basis. I bought a Raven Two to be able to go up from a Graham 2.2 to a Phantom. I really like the Raven Two and have never looked back. My only issue was the motor pulley was not cut well and after replacing it all was fine. I love the sound....seems like there is much less "mechanical noise" filtering back into the music. Some people call it a dark sounding table but I disagree. I am totally happy with it and don't see any "real" need to upgrade as yet. Though moving from a G 2.2 to the Phantom-S was a way bigger upgrade!
You really have to hear them both to know what they sound like, though that is difficult to do with different arms, cart's, amps, etc. You will find lover and haters of each.
I bought mine w/o a listen because all I had read was good and all made similar comments. I wanted a two arm capable TT but really needed a TT that could accept the Phantom. Also, I was always intrigued by suspension-less designs and their potential difference in sound.
 

jackelsson

Well-Known Member
Dec 1, 2013
264
215
280
.de
see photo's above Jack . It is actually a Black Knight platter as an upgrade for the AC series.

The BN platter upgrade is twice as heavy as the standard Raven AC platter coming in at 20kg's. The new bearing runs smoother is seems quieter than the old Raven bearing giving you a slightly more neutral presence with better "black" background.

I am currently running the table with one motor and that seems to be a little more energetic in timing than with 3 motors. 3 motors was slightly more relaxed and larger soundstage. I will go back to 3 motors in a week or so to confirm. Only trouble with the 3 motors is with the heavy 20kg platter, it does take a while with some slippage for the motors to come up to speed, or you just use your hand to give them a helping hand. that is how freely the new bearing runs.

And, the BN platter looks cool with all the copper - good homage to Micro Seiki :)
I finally got my BN platter today. Didn't have much time so far for listening but first impression is very good. I expected a lot to happen in the bass, which was the case, but actually the biggest improvement here was soundstaging and three-dimensionality, a bit of added natural timbre and detail thrown in for good measure. All in all it seems to be a worthwile upgrade for the Raven AC on par with the 3-motor upgrade.

I would be interested to hear what experience others made who did the upgrade to the BN platter.

IMG_7357_Raven-und-BN-Teller_1200px.jpg
 

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