What should one look for in a Tape Deck?

FrantzM

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Apr 20, 2010
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Hi

In my quest for a good TT, I also landed on a Technics 1500 and can get to a Revox PR-99.. The price of the Technics was so low as to be obscene... The Revox is not in the greatest of shape but the Technics looks almost new and has been in storage for almost 20 years ...
let just say I consider Tape the ultimate form of analog medium. I should have tried to not provide any ammunition for a good old analog vs digital debate but my position is that the best of digital is the best we have come up within music reproduction .. yet I am intrigued by R2R and have in my possession about 100 tapes among them maybe 10 RCA Living Presence and a bevy of Decca London Phase 4 Stereo.. in decent to very good form ...

From what I understand the gold standard of tape machines is the Studer A800 series... My honest question: What makes a Tape Deck? I understand that the heads are like Phono Cartridge and it is rather easy to just wire these to a head preamp ... The machine is then truly a deck ... What then makes its performance? What makes a Studer A 800 better than a PR 99 or a Technics RS-1500. I hate to invoke the dreaded "knowledge-removed' test but without knowing ;) is a RS-1500 that much different from a A-820 , if the same head are running into the same head preamp?
I have not performed such an experiment, I am asking if the differences between machines are that significant? For the record.. Differences between record players are very noticeable to me even in the case of same arm and cartridge... I am not about to start a Ki Choi (a Gentlemen by the way) sized-R2R collection .. I simply have a deck (maybe two ;) ) and a bunch of Tapes I will play from time to time. I don't think I will invest in the the Tape Project software myself ... So it is as far as it will likely go, I am too invested and too interested in digital to go much further...
 

mep

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Apr 20, 2010
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Frantz-We have far more qualified people here than me to answer your questions. Because you may be using one of the same tape repro heads as other users and the same preamp, it doesn't mean your tape path is the same. I think the tape path has a lot to do with the ultimate quality of the deck, but hell, I could be wrong. Look how the tape spools up on a Studer A-80 and then look at the Studer 800 series or anyone else's decks for that matter. If you have commerical 4 track tapes, it's hard to go wrong with the Technics as you have both a 4 track head and a 2 track head and a decent tape path. You can also play the "big boy" tapes as well.

You must be warned that playing tapes is addictive. Specially if those tapes are 15 ips/2 track tapes. It will be what you reach for when you want to show your system off, and it will be what you reach for when you want to treat your ears. You will find yourself wanting more tapes to hear and lamenting their cost.
 

MylesBAstor

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Apr 20, 2010
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Frantz-We have far more qualified people here than me to answer your questions. Because you may be using one of the same tape repro heads as other users and the same preamp, it doesn't mean your tape path is the same. I think the tape path has a lot to do with the ultimate quality of the deck, but hell, I could be wrong. Look how the tape spools up on a Studer A-80 and then look at the Studer 800 series or anyone else's decks for that matter. If you have commerical 4 track tapes, it's hard to go wrong with the Technics as you have both a 4 track head and a 2 track head and a decent tape path. You can also play the "big boy" tapes as well.

You must be warned that playing tapes is addictive. Specially if those tapes are 15 ips/2 track tapes. It will be what you reach for when you want to show your system off, and it will be what you reach for when you want to treat your ears. You will find yourself wanting more tapes to hear and lamenting their cost.

Problem is that the Technics doesn't have IEC EQ and you won't be able to play TTP tapes and a few others; for that, one needs an outboard tape preamp. :)

One thing that always stopped me early on from buying a deck is the condition of the heads; but even today that's not a big issue. With a deck that's sat around for 20 years and been unused, you're more than likely going to have to bring it to a tech and have it checked out, serviced and lubed.

As Mark said, we have Ki, Roger, Bruce and a few others much more familiar with a wide variety of decks. But a deck is much like a tt: there's the drive and tape handling mechanism (and that's where some decks vary considerably, the heads and the electronics. Unfortunately, stock decks like the Technics suffer from early '80s ss sound so if you ever become serious, you'll have to consider bypassing the electronics.

And Mark is spot on about tape being addictive. One almost gets to the point where you'd rather have one or two good Armani suit rather than ten store brand suits :)
 

flez007

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Aug 31, 2010
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I would also add that - no matter what deck you end up choosing (and here the Technics could be a better option due to parts availability) - you might need to have it updated to i) get a better head assembly, ii) check for mechanics and maybe updates like the ones mentioned at the TP Forum and iii) run audio electronics out of the box, that is thru an external head preamp that can bring its performance to the level some are mentioning here.
 

mep

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Apr 20, 2010
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Problem is that the Technics doesn't have IEC EQ and you won't be able to play TTP tapes and a few others; for that, one needs an outboard tape preamp. :)

One thing that always stopped me early on from buying a deck is the condition of the heads; but even today that's not a big issue. With a deck that's sat around for 20 years and been unused, you're more than likely going to have to bring it to a tech and have it checked out, serviced and lubed.

As Mark said, we have Ki, Roger, Bruce and a few others much more familiar with a wide variety of decks. But a deck is much like a tt: there's the drive and tape handling mechanism (and that's where some decks vary considerably, the heads and the electronics. Unfortunately, stock decks like the Technics suffer from early '80s ss sound so if you ever become serious, you'll have to consider bypassing the electronics.

And Mark is spot on about tape being addictive. One almost gets to the point where you'd rather have one or two good Armani suit rather than ten store brand suits :)

Myles-Frantz said he wasn’t interested in buying TP tapes and I think he alluded to being interested in possibly having new heads and an outboard preamp which makes the lack of IEC/CCIR capability in the Technics a moot point. If Frantz elects to go with an outboard preamp that has a switch for NAB/CCIR equalization, he can play the “big boy” tapes.

What I think is that if Frantz does get a good deck that is capable of playing back 15 ips/2 track tapes and he buys a couple of those tapes, he will be thinking about buying more of those tapes whether they come from the TP or not.
 

MylesBAstor

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Myles-Frantz said he wasn’t interested in buying TP tapes and I think he alluded to being interested in possibly having new heads and an outboard preamp which makes the lack of IEC/CCIR capability in the Technics a moot point. If Frantz elects to go with an outboard preamp that has a switch for NAB/CCIR equalization, he can play the “big boy” tapes.

What I think is that if Frantz does get a good deck that is capable of playing back 15 ips/2 track tapes and he buys a couple of those tapes, he will be thinking about buying more of those tapes whether they come from the TP or not.

Oh I know Mark :) I was simply commenting on the last sentence about wanting to go further!
 

FrantzM

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Apr 20, 2010
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Hi

The machine runs ... It turns on and make sound ... It was purchased from radio station and was left in storage for those 20 years. The question is somewhat rhetorical but not entirely so. I can get good heads and would in the future use an Outboard head amp... The main question to me hasn't been answered. Would there be a substantial difference between a RS-1500 and a Studer 820 using the same heads and head-amp in both. I can get the PR-99 but have already snatched the RS-1500. The offer was too good to pass.
 

MylesBAstor

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Apr 20, 2010
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Hi

The machine runs ... It turns on and make sound ... It was purchased from radio station and was left in storage for those 20 years. The question is somewhat rhetorical but not entirely so. I can get good heads and would in the future use an Outboard head amp... The main question to me hasn't been answered. Would there be a substantial difference between a RS-1500 and a Studer 820 using the same heads and head-amp in both. I can get the PR-99 but have already snatched the RS-1500. The offer was too good to pass.

OK my two cents since I own a modded Technics. Put new heads and new electronics in and it'll give the big machines a run for the money. Plug theTechnics is also a gentle tape handlerm has a great transport and doesn't take up the room of a pro machine.

Is it as good as a Studer? I'll leave that to Charlie, Ki, Roger, etc. :)
 

Fred

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May 31, 2010
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There is an economy of scale at work here. Tape comes at a price. Good tape at a higher price and great tape can get into the extreme. In my view a great tape machine has to possess a certain synergy between its ultimate reproduction of sound, the features it possesses to accomplish that end and how well it handles the tape medium itself. From what I've seen, and read, even the venerable stalwarts have issues with their internal electronics in stock form. If not, why do we have so many Bottlehead or UHA Unity pre-amp efforts going around out there. None of those efforts, however, address how well the deck handles the tape itself. So for my view, notwithstanding the playback capability, I think the ulimate would fall into the realm of a professional deck of a more modern date. Otari, Tascam and Studer being the most obvious that come to my mind.
 

Steve Williams

Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
From what I've seen, and read, even the venerable stalwarts have issues with their internal electronics in stock form. If not, why do we have so many Bottlehead or UHA Unity pre-amp efforts going around out there.

Interesting comment

I do have a professionally done switch on mine however the fellow from whom I bought mine and who has been refurbishing and restoring Studers for 25 years when I told him said to me, "if Willy Studer would have wanted a bypass switch he would have put one there"

Having said that I can say that there is no problem with the older electronics when listening in my system
 

rockitman

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I have a Technics 1500 with a Nortronics repro head wired out to a King/Cello tape pre. Comparing that to the Studer A810 stock electronics, the Modded Technics wins for absolute fidelity. The bass presentation is clearer and tighter and the mids and treble are more liquid. The treble is more extended on the Technics/King/Cello combo. That said, the Studer has a very robust musical sound about it. It's a different flavor. As such, I have decided to keep both my A810'w stock for the time being. The only issue with Studer's are cap failures that I am experiencing now. I look foward to having most of the machine re-capped. The downside of the Technics is the fast rewind speed. Pro decks allow you to slow spooling for less tape shedding. I have found the bottle head bearing upgrade kit for the tape marker guides to reduce shedding signifcantly on the 1500.
 

RogerD

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I think everyone knows where my bias is,I like Ampex studio decks,but they are not for everybody. They are big machines and really need their electronics updated to really sound good. Now some would disagree with that,but to get the best sound I think most machines would sound better with a upgrade to their electronics. Studer probably has the best tape handling. For myself their stock sound is a little vanilla compared to the Ampex,but that is a matter of taste. When I upgrade the electronics it is mainly custom and takes some time although compared to tape preamps available it is cost effective. I don't think you can go wrong with any of the machines mentioned. I would target a machine that parts can be easily obtained and the deck can be serviced.
 
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tony ky ma

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Aug 21, 2010
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A lot of people knows to use the monitor out put sound better(transparency) than the line out put in PR99, reason is monitor out put is bypassing all the switches and volume control, same reason for those pro deck if to put outside preamp can sound better than stock also bypassing all the switches for editing, the most costless modification of your deck is to make the repro directly out if you don't want to do recording just play back only. analog information in a good recorded tape doesn't like digital better deck can get more out from tape but if the condition or recording is not so good, good deck also can show the bad part of sound too, so listen to those 4 track 7.5ips or 3.75 ips tape you don't have to use pro deck to listen but if you want to taste what will be highest in audio than a master dub and a pro machine is needed , most of Studer's head can be relap, after one relap can hold for almost the rest of the life time if not for commercial use, compare to vinyl you can have fun to notice sound changing by adjust all the element by youself, in tape deck you have to trust you survice tect to do it for you
tony ma
 

Ki Choi

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May 13, 2010
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None of those efforts, however, address how well the deck handles the tape itself. So for my view, notwithstanding the playback capability, I think the ulimate would fall into the realm of a professional deck of a more modern date. Otari, Tascam and Studer being the most obvious that come to my mind.

Fred:

My often used analogy - in having ok consumer or even semi-pro tape transport vs properly operating professional deck - is similar to comparing sonic differences from a top tier turntable vs ok turntable with exact same cartridge, same tonearm and phono stage. If you believe in - different mechanical qualities in turntables result in different levels of sonic performance - when playing the LPs, the quality of then tape transports should matter in selecting your ultimate tape machine as much or more than your phono stage or the external tape head preamps, IMHO.
 

Fred

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May 31, 2010
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Fred:

My often used analogy - in having ok consumer or even semi-pro tape transport vs properly operating professional deck - is similar to comparing sonic differences from a top tier turntable vs ok turntable with exact same cartridge, same tonearm and phono stage. If you believe in - different mechanical qualities in turntables result in different levels of sonic performance - when playing the LPs, the quality of then tape transports should matter in selecting your ultimate tape machine as much or more than your phono stage or the external tape head preamps, IMHO.

I agree Ki. I think tape handling is critical and unfortunately too often overlooked. I think your analogy is a very good one.
 

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