Last Is Amazing, Wonderful, A Miracle- I Present A Significant Experiment

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MylesBAstor

Well-Known Member
Apr 20, 2010
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Myles and Peter do you use Last Tape Preservative and or Last Head treatment for your tape and R2R

No I don't :) As a rule of thumb, I stay away from anything that I can't remove! That even goes for trying that silver contact pastes!
 

MylesBAstor

Well-Known Member
Apr 20, 2010
11,236
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Exactly, that was my conclusion back in the '80s as well... It felt like LAST was some sort of teflon coating or equivalent, which may well extend stylus life, but otherwise was detrimental to the sound. I believe back then it was claimed that you have to play the records a few times after LASTing in order to get them to sound better, or something like that... Never touched that stuff since then...

The worst example of this vinyl lubricants based on LAST was the product "Genie in a Bottle." The crap gunked up every stylus ever tried it with by the end of the LP.

One product that does have a subtle effect is the Lyra SPT (stylus performance treatment). One brushes the stylus with SPT prior to playing each LP. Seems to lower distortion among a few other things.
 

karma

New Member
Jun 17, 2011
320
1
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82
White Rock, New Mexico
Hi All,
Based upon what I am hearing here, I don't think any of you have actually tried Last for vinyl. Some points to ponder:

1. Last does not leave a residue on the vinyl.
2. Last chemically combines with the vinyl and leaves nothing behind. There is nothing to remove.
3. Last strengthens the vinyl at the microscopic level and inhibits the vinyl from deforming when the stylus passes by.

Those that claim to hear a degradation from Last are mistaking the effect. Imagine a record made from steel. When played, the steel would not deform from the pressure placed on the stylus from the groove. A Lasted groove behaves in a similar way. The vinyl deforms less. Thus what you are claiming to be improved sound from an un-Lasted groove is actually the sound of a deformed groove. Is this HI Fi sound or a preference for distortion?? I say distortion.

What I am hearing is a set of misinformed opinions. This happens often in hi fi but I would thought this group would be beyond it. I won't argue with your tastes. I will argue vigorously with misinformed and non-techinical babbly-goop.

And, Myles, I have a important question for you. Every professional reviewer I have been around, and living in Santa Fe I have been around many, do not pay for their equipment. Instead, they get what they want from companies who are anxious to see their name in print as often as possible. Do you pay for your own equipment out of your pocket? If not, then your view of the audiophile dollar is much different than mine where I see the money disappear from my bank account with every purchase.

Sparky
 

MylesBAstor

Well-Known Member
Apr 20, 2010
11,236
81
1,725
New York City
Hi All,
Based upon what I am hearing here, I don't think any of you have actually tried Last for vinyl. Some points to ponder:

1. Last does not leave a residue on the vinyl.
2. Last chemically combines with the vinyl and leaves nothing behind. There is nothing to remove.
3. Last strengthens the vinyl at the microscopic level and inhibits the vinyl from deforming when the stylus passes by.

Those that claim to hear a degradation from Last are mistaking the effect. Imagine a record made from steel. When played, the steel would not deform from the pressure placed on the stylus from the groove. A Lasted groove behaves in a similar way. The vinyl deforms less. Thus what you are claiming to be improved sound from an un-Lasted groove is actually the sound of a deformed groove. Is this HI Fi sound or a preference for distortion?? I say distortion.

What I am hearing is a set of misinformed opinions. This happens often in hi fi but I would thought this group would be beyond it. I won't argue with your tastes. I will argue vigorously with misinformed and non-techinical babbly-goop.

And, Myles, I have a important question for you. Every professional reviewer I have been around, and living in Santa Fe I have been around many, do not pay for their equipment. Instead, they get what they want from companies who are anxious to see their name in print as often as possible. Do you pay for your own equipment out of your pocket? If not, then your view of the audiophile dollar is much different than mine where I see the money disappear from my bank account with every purchase.

Sparky

Sparky: I don't get it. You always take on this angry tone when anyone here dares to disagree with you. I must admit though you give me pause to chuckle accusing me of never having listened to LAST when I wrote the second piece on RCF in press (after Enid's) and have always covered record Rxs.

I'm not sure what you expect out of the second OT note save for a fight. But I'll save you the time and energy. For the record: PFO's requires all reviewers to disclose which pieces are or aren't owned in their reference system. You can see that on the PFO website. Next, a form must be submitted by all staff reviewers requesting a piece of gear for review and the review request must be approved by the editors. Then the gear can be tracked. And I know this will just break your heart. I do own all the gear in my reference system including my ML speaker, cj electronics, turntable, Avid,Doshi, Allnic and cj phono sections (yes have to get rid of some of them), Altis and Sony digital, two cartridges, Silver Circle PLC, cables, Kubala-Sosna cables (KS doesn't give out long term loans), platforms, cones, RCF, etc. Oh and of course I own my modded tape decks and 10K LPs and around 100 tapes. Down to the AC receptacles and dedicated lines in the wall. Lock, stock and barrel paid for.

There it is.

So if you think it improves, your LPs great Sparky. Enjoy it. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, even if its wrong.
 

ack

VIP/Donor & WBF Founding Member
May 6, 2010
6,774
1,198
580
Boston, MA
Hi All,
Based upon what I am hearing here, I don't think any of you have actually tried Last for vinyl. Some points to ponder:

1. Last does not leave a residue on the vinyl.
2. Last chemically combines with the vinyl and leaves nothing behind. There is nothing to remove.
3. Last strengthens the vinyl at the microscopic level and inhibits the vinyl from deforming when the stylus passes by.

Those that claim to hear a degradation from Last are mistaking the effect. Imagine a record made from steel. When played, the steel would not deform from the pressure placed on the stylus from the groove. A Lasted groove behaves in a similar way. The vinyl deforms less. Thus what you are claiming to be improved sound from an un-Lasted groove is actually the sound of a deformed groove. Is this HI Fi sound or a preference for distortion?? I say distortion.

What I am hearing is a set of misinformed opinions. This happens often in hi fi but I would thought this group would be beyond it. I won't argue with your tastes. I will argue vigorously with misinformed and non-techinical babbly-goop.

And, Myles, I have a important question for you. Every professional reviewer I have been around, and living in Santa Fe I have been around many, do not pay for their equipment. Instead, they get what they want from companies who are anxious to see their name in print as often as possible. Do you pay for your own equipment out of your pocket? If not, then your view of the audiophile dollar is much different than mine where I see the money disappear from my bank account with every purchase.

Sparky

I rarely post opinions w/o facts behind them... This is another case, and yes I still have plenty of LAST treated records with the white label on them, back way when I was experimenting... So yes, we are "beyond it."
 

karma

New Member
Jun 17, 2011
320
1
0
82
White Rock, New Mexico
Sparky: I don't get it. You always take on this angry tone when anyone here dares to disagree with you. I must admit though you give me pause to chuckle accusing me of never having listened to LAST when I wrote the second piece on RCF in press (after Enid's) and have always covered record Rxs.

I'm not sure what you expect out of the second OT note save for a fight. But I'll save you the time and energy. For the record: PFO's requires all reviewers to disclose which pieces are or aren't owned in their reference system. You can see that on the PFO website. Next, a form must be submitted by all staff reviewers requesting a piece of gear for review and the review request must be approved by the editors. Then the gear can be tracked. And I know this will just break your heart. I do own all the gear in my reference system including my ML speaker, cj electronics, turntable, Avid,Doshi, Allnic and cj phono sections (yes have to get rid of some of them), Altis and Sony digital, two cartridges, Silver Circle PLC, cables, Kubala-Sosna cables (KS doesn't give out long term loans), platforms, cones, RCF, etc. Oh and of course I own my modded tape decks and 10K LPs and around 100 tapes. Down to the AC receptacles and dedicated lines in the wall. Lock, stock and barrel paid for.

There it is.

So if you think it improves, your LPs great Sparky. Enjoy it. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, even if its wrong.

HI Myles,
Don't misunderstand. The "reviewers game", as I call it, is OK. Having free equipment to listen to and use as a reference system is fine as long as it is the equipment the reviewer wants. Few of us mortals, including reviewers, can afford true reference systems. But, you know what I say is true as far as it being an industry-wide practice unless things have changed in the past few years which I doubt.

I think free equipment does raise the question of a conflict of interest and is not good for the industry. However, I will not go so far as accusing reviewers of catering to their self-interest. I think most are more honest than that. I'm glad and impressed that you do own your equipment. That being the case, are you not impressed that Last can offer such a good opportunity for cartridge economics? You did not mention this aspect in your response and yet that was the major point of my essay. I guess, this means you are not impressed. To not be impressed means you have much more disposable income than I.

I did not want to start a fight but I did want to open the discussion. When I see someone go to the trouble to do a major essay, and bolstered by real research, I always try to respond even if I don't agree. I expect the same from you-all. And you should note that in my essay I did not mention that Last might improve sound quality. I purposely left that subject for another day. You should be cautious to not read something into the writing that is not there.

Sparky
 
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rockitman

Member Sponsor
Sep 20, 2011
7,097
412
1,210
Northern NY
I have bought some used LP's treated with last and do have stylast treatment. I will not treat my new vinyl with it and have tried stylast. I do not believe these treatments can make a stylus last 5000 hours. I don't believe in record coatings either or worse yet, chemically altering the vinyl. If it were a true revolution, I think everyone would be using it. This is only my opinion of course.
 

Gregadd

WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
10,517
1,774
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Metro DC
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karma

New Member
Jun 17, 2011
320
1
0
82
White Rock, New Mexico
I have bought some used LP's treated with last and do have stylast treatment. I will not treat my new vinyl with it and have tried stylast. I do not believe these treatments can make a stylus last 5000 hours. I don't believe in record coatings either or worse yet, chemically altering the vinyl. If it were a true revolution, I think everyone would be using it. This is only my opinion of course.

HI rockitman,
OK, what would convince you? Very few, if any, Last users have done the research I have. I went into the project with no preconceptions. Do you find that my methods are flawed? If so, how? Do you think I am lying to you? Why would I do that? I thought that claims of increased stylus life was something that could be measured even if it took a long time. By measuring, the results are removed from the normal audiophile debates which are completely at the whim of subjective opinion. I can see that no matter how objective I can make the test and present the results, it is not enough. Well, it's your loss.

Frankly, I did not believe the factory claims because I'm as skeptical of snake oil claims as anyone. But, if true, then it was something I wanted to know about. And I did find out.

I'm starting to feel like Galileo when he claimed the earth was not the center of the universe. Please don't send me in front of the inquisition or punish me with house arrest for the rest of my life. As with Galileo, I'm publishing my findings only hoping to advance knowledge.

And no, I don't think my findings compare in any way to Galileo's. LOL. I just wanted to point out that he was right in spite of overwhelming opinion against. Today no one questions Galileo. But it took a few hundred years.

Sparky
 

ack

VIP/Donor & WBF Founding Member
May 6, 2010
6,774
1,198
580
Boston, MA
Sparky, I think you made your point, some are not buying it, you attacked Myles... time to close this thread???
 
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