Any cyclists here?

mtseymour

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Dec 7, 2013
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You sure can spend crazy money on bikes! and just like audio it's all subjective and only a persons opinion. One of the guys $8K CF frame cracked last night - ouch! I was looking at a similar bike I have but in the CF - $1.5k more but was advised of it being more delicate so to take such into consideration so I went with the AL and very happy indeed. :D

Most road bike use carbon frames for the low weight and comfortable ride. On mtn bikes, there is the added benefit of placing the rear suspension in the optimal location (without compromises from conventional Al tubing). I've noticed that a carbon frame is doesn't rattle and holds a better line when tackling a rough descent.

One little known fact is that carbon frames are easily repaired outside of warranty. Calfee Design has been working with carbon fiber for a long time and can repair most damaged frames. By contrast, a damaged aluminum frame is usually un-repairable (ie. welding & heat treatment are tricky).
 

Brf

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Sep 21, 2012
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I absolutely love the 650b (27.5) wheel size for aggressive riding (Enduro, All Mountain, and Downhill). The bike tracks better than a 26 and does not loose any "flickability" of the former 26". I though that my former Transition Covert (pictured below) was the best All Mountain bike until I started riding 650B Carbon bikes with 1X11 transmissions.

Whoever mentioned "dropper post" as an revolutionary product, I couldn't agree more. I have them on all my bikes with the exception of the dh rigs.

I am currently demoing Shimano’s new XTR Di2 electronic shifting system on my Intense T275 Carbon. All I can say is wow!
 

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Bobvin

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Hey you mountain bike guys, educate me please. I know mountain bikes have been going to 29'er wheels (that is, I understand, a 700c rim size). Now you speak of 27.5 (650 rim size). Why? Or is a marketing thing to get you to buy more bikes? And why do they call them 29er or 27.5? (An ignorant roadie wants to know!)
 

Brf

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Sep 21, 2012
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Hey you mountain bike guys, educate me please. I know mountain bikes have been going to 29'er wheels (that is, I understand, a 700c rim size). Now you speak of 27.5 (650 rim size). Why? Or is a marketing thing to get you to buy more bikes? And why do they call them 29er or 27.5? (An ignorant roadie wants to know!)

Mountain bikes are now designed to appeal to two groups 1) Gravity 2) XC with sub groups in between (Enduro, All Mountain etc.) There are advantages and disadvantage to "any" wheel size.

26 inch Bikes
  • Can be made lighter, stiffer and stronger than other sizes
  • Loads of existing 26in wheels, tyres, forks and bikes makes spares cheap and easy to find
  • Feels lumpier and stalls easier than bigger wheels on rough terrain

650b / 27.5in
  • Faster accelerating, stronger, stiffer and more agile than 29in but noticeably smoother than 26in
  • Handling and wheel placement feels a lot more natural than 29er wheels
  • Spare tubes, tyres, wheels and other stuff are still really hard to find in a lot of shops

29er
  • Smoother, grippier and more stable for better control on rough terrain
  • Slower to get moving but hold their speed better once rolling
  • Feel awkward on tighter, slower trails and harder to sync with long suspension or short riders
 
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Mike Lavigne

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Brf hits the high points of the question about size of mountain bikes. but if you want some depth about the whole 26"-27.5"-29" debate here is a web site that gets deep into everything mountain bike related and if you ask a question you will typically get helpful answers.

http://forums.mtbr.com/forum.php

some how this link has been hacked and converted to (I think) Chinese characters. I cannot figure it out. sorry.

if we think audiophiles are rabid, we are nothing compared to bikers. it's a religion for many.
 

DaveC

Industry Expert
Nov 16, 2014
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Lol, the Chinese have their own "versions" of popular US/International websites. It's ridiculous and quite funny. They put a lot of effort into it...

26" wheels are a thing of the past at this point. The difference in overall diameter between 26 and 27.5" is minimal, some of the larger 26" tires are very close in diameter vs a 27.5 setup... 27.5 tires are lower profile and more consistent in size vs 26" tires, the lower profile seems to roll better and corner better vs the older 26" rim size. It's a pretty large upgrade and not all about marketing.

29" are mainly used by folks more concerned about having the most efficient bike possible, these bikes generally aren't as good in very difficult terrain although some would disagree. There is a lot of room for personal preference for sure. But it is true that 29" setups roll more efficiently and tradeoff weight and stiffness to do so. Accelerating a larger diameter and heavier wheel takes more energy but overall is more efficient for most XC type riding. Personally, I think 29" bikes feel awkward, the big wheels have a noticeable gyroscope effect and the geometry of the overall bike feels compromised. However, if I wanted a bike to get me from point a to b as efficiently as possible it is true a 29" XC race bike would probably win out.

These days it's almost impossible to buy a bad bike, suspension designs and geometry have converged quite a bit and most bikes on the market are excellent.
 

Bobvin

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The link worked fine for me Mike. Thanks. And your Bianchi... looks to be DuraAce DI2. Is it 10 or 11 sp?

All those high tech suspension bikes, is why I went fat. A whole lot less stuff to mess with, though one of the tires on my fatty weighs almost as much as my full wheelset on the CYFAC! Did I already say it... I want to build up a sub-20lb fat bike with drop bars. I've seen some fatties with drop bars as cross bikes. Just need some evolution in rubber for fatties, and I see there are already tires with wide profile but shallow depth, so the evolution is underway.

fatpair.jpg
 
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DEV

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Hey you mountain bike guys, educate me please. I know mountain bikes have been going to 29'er wheels (that is, I understand, a 700c rim size). Now you speak of 27.5 (650 rim size). Why? Or is a marketing thing to get you to buy more bikes? And why do they call them 29er or 27.5? (An ignorant roadie wants to know!)

You really need to experiment firsthand if possible - we have allot a great bike shops within driving distance so I was able to see allot and all were more than accommodating for me to take out and try. I did do some research prior and didn't want to spend any more than $6K - I found you could easily spend more than that alone just on a frame so it was difficult not to get loss and the shop guys always trying to upsell and saying this is allot better etc.

I was surprised for example trying different 29er's manufactures bikes, geometry differing and how they felt - no bike is going to feel the same and it's really going to come down to how you feel on it but also it's REALLY IMPORTANT to be properly fitted. That bike you may think isn't for you - well could possibly be due to not properly fitted.

Bike guys are way more anal than audio guys. - I went for a ride earlier today and a younger guy ""in his early 30's - haven't seen before" showed up with a crazy looking CF bike - in conversation it's a custom build and had approx. $20K invested - wow! In conversation he competes and everything he has was way better and way more expensive than mine for example but I couldn't resist and said that's all good but what real advantage do you think you have say over me and mine? He went on blah! blah! like he would leave me in the dust - I enjoy competition :D I said well that's great - it's time for us to all ride and we will see, talk is cheap. For the first half hour he was good, right there and aggressive but the next hour not so much, 2nd hour mark he was well at the back of the pack - then we exploded for the last 40 minutes of the ride like normal followed with a 1/2 cool down. That was a good ride, the youngster at this point wasn't talking much smack anymore because it took him some time to catch up :D We all said what time for tonight - youngster was very quiet, will see if he shows up. :D So in the end it really doesn't matter all that much what you ride ;)
 

DEV

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Oct 19, 2011
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The link worked fine for me Mike. Thanks. And your Bianchi... looks to be DuraAce DI2. Is it 10 or 11 sp?

All those high tech suspension bikes, is why I went fat. A whole lot less stuff to mess with, though one of the tires on my fatty weighs almost as much as my full wheelset on the CYFAC! Did I already say it... I want to build up a sub-20lb fat bike with drop bars. I've seen some fatties with drop bars as cross bikes. Just need some evolution in rubber for fatties, and I see there are already tires with wide profile but shallow depth, so the evolution is underway.

Those are crazy awesome looking :D Downhill bikes I take it?
 

Bobvin

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Bike guys are way more anal than audio guys. - I went for a ride earlier today and a younger guy ""in his early 30's - haven't seen before" showed up with a crazy looking CF bike - in conversation it's a custom build and had approx. $20K invested - wow! In conversation he competes and everything he has was way better and way more expensive than mine for example but I couldn't resist and said that's all good but what real advantage do you think you have say over me and mine? He went on blah! blah! like he would leave me in the dust - I enjoy competition :D I said well that's great - it's time for us to all ride and we will see, talk is cheap. For the first half hour he was good, right there and aggressive but the next hour not so much, 2nd hour mark he was well at the back of the pack - then we exploded for the last 40 minutes of the ride like normal followed with a 1/2 cool down. That was a good ride, the youngster at this point wasn't talking much smack anymore because it took him some time to catch up :D We all said what time for tonight - youngster was very quiet, will see if he shows up. :D So in the end it really doesn't matter all that much what you ride ;)

Its always the Indian, not the arrow.

One of the reasons I train hard, is to overhear the young guys say 'that ol' dude can really hammer.' And, for those times I'm able to ride them off my wheel, laying down the V. And what is the V? Start with 'the rules' http://www.velominati.com/the-rules/, and meditate on Rule #5.

And repeat the Prophets Prayer: (for those truly dedicated roadies, in honor of the Prophet, Eddy Merckx)

THE PROPHET’S PRAYER
Our Hardman who art in Belgium
Eddy be thy name
thy cobbles come, thy hands are numb
from pavé
as it isn’t heaven.

Give us this day our daily V (five),
and forgive us our Rule violations,
as we drop those who attack against us,
lead us not off our line
but deliver us from Anti-V.

For thine is the big ring,
and the power, and the glory,
for Eddy and ever.

A-Merckx.
 

Mike Lavigne

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Apr 25, 2010
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The link worked fine for me Mike. Thanks. And your Bianchi... looks to be DuraAce DI2. Is it 10 or 11 sp?

yes; Dura Ace Di2 and 11 speed. super light and rides like a dream.

regarding the 'fatty' bikes, too much weight for me in the hills around where I live, unless I ride lots more than I do. and I do lots of gravel roads where the big tires are like an anchor. I even got a second set of wheels with 'faster' tires for the gravel hard pack. I ride those from my house.

old guys like me who are not out there all the time need all the help we can get. I aspire to ride more but my audio system seems to intrude on my free time.
 

Brf

Well-Known Member
Sep 21, 2012
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Those are crazy awesome looking :D Downhill bikes I take it?

Just the opposite, Fatbikes are almost the opposite of a DH rig.

Production Fatbikes have pretty middle of the road MTB geometries that are good for XC riding and plowing through snow, sand, loose gravel, roots, mud etc. They don’t have the super slack angles of an all mountain rig. As the downhills get steeper and rougher you won’t be smiling nearly as much as you could on a fully suspended MTB with really slack angles.

Here is a picture of my last years bike which is a true Downhill bike, although you would NOT want to use it for XC riding.
 

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Bobvin

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I know Mike, I was up in Redmond for 15 years. A little more varried here in Portland area, but out of my house my training loop is 40km, with 2k vertical. I'll be out later for my mid-week trip into the pain cave.

That said, it really just depends if you are cyclist 1st or audiophile 1st. When weather is good, I am cyclist 1st. After the ride, while endorphins are buzzing, a nice cabernet and recovery in my music room suit me fine!
 

DEV

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Oct 19, 2011
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Just the opposite, Fatbikes are almost the opposite of a DH rig.

Production Fatbikes have pretty middle of the road MTB geometries that are good for XC riding and plowing through snow, sand, loose gravel, roots, mud etc. They don’t have the super slack angles of an all mountain rig. As the downhills get steeper and rougher you won’t be smiling nearly as much as you could on a fully suspended MTB with really slack angles.

Here is a picture of my last years bike which is a true Downhill bike, although you would NOT want to use it for XC riding.

Ha! Ha! I was so memorized looking at the tires I didn't even notice there was no suspension etc. - ya that bike with the fork extensions looks a proper down hiller :D
 

DEV

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Oct 19, 2011
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One of the reasons I train hard, is to overhear the young guys say 'that ol' dude can really hammer.

Oh and I forgot to mention 27.5 - just received a text from one of the guys "friend of the youngster" saying who - when and where we are meeting tonight for our ride - mentioned lol the youngster is so far M.I.A. likely napping :D
 

Mike Lavigne

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 25, 2010
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I know Mike, I was up in Redmond for 15 years. A little more varried here in Portland area, but out of my house my training loop is 40km, with 2k vertical. I'll be out later for my mid-week trip into the pain cave.

That said, it really just depends if you are cyclist 1st or audiophile 1st. When weather is good, I am cyclist 1st. After the ride, while endorphins are buzzing, a nice cabernet and recovery in my music room suit me fine!

I'm an audiophile first at this point. resistance is futile.

I live in North Bend near Rattlesnake Lake. so unless I ride the Iron Horse train tracks toward Snoqualmie Pass (continual climbing or descending) I have to descend a 400-500 foot hill to ride anywhere.....which means I then have to ride up it to home. so 'lightweight' is where it's at for now.

i'll go periods where I'm on the bikes a lot, then go months off them. I do what I can. i'll be 64 in September.

the 'afterbuzz' listening is nice but (ride + listening) I fall asleep mostly.;)
 

mtseymour

Well-Known Member
Dec 7, 2013
32
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313
Vancouver, BC
I am currently demoing Shimano’s new XTR Di2 electronic shifting system on my Intense T275 Carbon. All I can say is wow!

I use the Ultegra Di2 on my Calfee, but SRAM XX1 on my Norco Sight. How does the XTR Di2 compare to 1x11 or 2x11 mechanical shifting? Did you use the Synchro mode so that Di2 changes the front and rear derailleurs to get the right gear combo? How sensitive is the rear derailleur to dirt or mud?

As for 26" vs 27.5" wheels, the latter has become "standard" on new bikes or forks. By using different rims and tires, a 27.5" frame can handle the widest range of terrain (fast XC to downhill racing).
 

Brf

Well-Known Member
Sep 21, 2012
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I use the Ultegra Di2 on my Calfee, but SRAM XX1 on my Norco Sight. How does the XTR Di2 compare to 1x11 or 2x11 mechanical shifting? Did you use the Synchro mode so that Di2 changes the front and rear derailleurs to get the right gear combo? How sensitive is the rear derailleur to dirt or mud?

As for 26" vs 27.5" wheels, the latter has become "standard" on new bikes or forks. By using different rims and tires, a 27.5" frame can handle the widest range of terrain (fast XC to downhill racing).

I use the XTR Di2 on my Intense T275 which has a 1x11 drive train. The gear changes are instantaneous and extremely quick. You can dump a lot of gears much quicker than a mechanical. So far I have had no problems with mud, dirt and rain. Personally, I would not invest the money in the Di2 for a 1x11 drive train on an All Mountain type bike. Having that kind of money hanging off the rear and being exposed to the potential abuse that All Mountain biking presents is quite unnerving. I get a substantial industry consideration through my son who rides professionally, otherwise, I would spend my money on a mechanical.

My son uses the Di2 on a 2x11 drive system and that is where the system really shines. The programmable synchro shifting allows to you select the right gear without loosing focus on the terrain. Front derailleur chain rub is eliminated and watching the front and rear derailleur work in tandem is remarkable. Great equipment, a true advancement, but pricey at retail.
 

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