We all have heard super duper expensive systems that just did not have "it". We were not moved. We thought you spent $100K on your Wilsons or Magicos or Focals + $100K on your ancillaries and it sucks!
But what makes a system get that unmeasurable, unquantifiable, intangible, seemingly mystical capability to convey the emotions of the performance while exalting and stimulating the person listening?
So what was it? Room treatments? The right amp? source? pre-amp? Cables? Cable elevators? a combination?
Caesar- (aka Johnny Apple Thread) First we need to have a long discussion to argue about what “soul” means. Then the objectivists can jump in and argue that you can’t measure soul so therefore it doesn’t exist. From there we can wander on into synergy and how it affects the non-existing soul. Then we can top it off with a heaping helping of other audiophile jargon and how much or how little it takes to buy soul. And by then we will have the devil himself interested in this thread as he is always on the lookout to procure some souls. In other words, I predict this thread will go to hell in a hand basket.
.... And by then we will have the devil himself interested in this thread as he is always on the lookout to procure some souls. In other words, I predict this thread will go to hell in a hand basket.
Caesar- (aka Johnny Apple Thread) First we need to have a long discussion to argue about what “soul” means. Then the objectivists can jump in and argue that you can’t measure soul so therefore it doesn’t exist. From there we can wander on into synergy and how it affects the non-existing soul. Then we can top it off with a heaping helping of other audiophile jargon and how much or how little it takes to buy soul. And by then we will have the devil himself interested in this thread as he is always on the lookout to procure some souls. In other words, I predict this thread will go to hell in a hand basket.
You may be right, MEP. It may go to hell. I did throw in a bone to objectivists by mentioning room treatments. But I have no doubt that you surely know what i am talking about. And yes, it is subjective, but there is a "rightness" about some systems and a "wrongness" about others. The right ones get that human connection right, while others just sound cold and mechanical...
(BTW, one day I will start a thread in every sub-forum, just to ipss you off, my friend.)
Caesar-I'm just teasing you. And you’re right; I know exactly what you’re talking about. And because I know what you are talking about, I also think it will be impossible to quantify it in terms that anything nearing a consensus on this forum would buy into. The way you set it up practically guarantees it:
But what makes a system get that unmeasurable, unquantifiable, intangible, seemingly mystical capability to convey the emotions of the performance while exalting and stimulating the person listening?
When you use words like “un-measureable,” “unquantifiable,” “intangible,” “seemingly mystical capability,” that opens up a whole can of objectivist whoop-ass. Hell, it might be two cans. In fact, it might even be three.
But what makes a system get that unmeasurable, unquantifiable, intangible, seemingly mystical capability to convey the emotions of the performance while exalting and stimulating the person listening?
I hire always - before playing - a retired Indian Medicine Man. He howls and dances around my System. With some luck it also starts raining outside what supports the molecular flow in my cables (and it is also good for the flowers from my wife. WAF is top for that). it sounds great. He is Apache I think. Per Dance 15,-- $
Soul Stage +1$ extra, Jazz Stage ,75$ extra, Classical Soundstage 2,25$....
It's worth it.
Let's just agree that a system with "soul" is as much a bovine dropping as anything audiophiles have ever come up with... Now a system become sentient? Really? And some person is able to perceive the sentience of said system but not others? So feet stomping or tapping become a reliable indication of a system worthiness?
The less that is said about this notion of "system soul" the better ... let's drop it ...
Agree with Bruce...its the combination. After all, people call it a sound system for a reason. Put a Ferrari on bicycle tires...put an airplane engine on a mack truck frame...
i have heard SF Pianos with a Krell Evo402 sound magical, Quad 2905 with high current amps...and I was impressed but not in love with Alexandrias and Evo 1 and Evo 2s... That said, when i heard the X1/Grand slamms with ARC Reference equipment, it was stunning...and i realized (again) why we are all in this crazy hobby.
Let's just agree that a system with "soul" is as much a bovine dropping as anything audiophiles have ever come up with... Now a system become sentient? Really? And some person is able to perceive the sentience of said system but not others? So feet stomping or tapping become a reliable indication of a system worthiness?
The less that is said about this notion of "system soul" the better ... let's drop it ...
Ok Frantz, so if your dealer tries to sell you that $20K cable, you will send him away. But you would surely pull your speaker 5 feet away from the walls, assuming you had the space... And you would also drive them with enough power...
When you use words like “un-measureable,” “unquantifiable,” “intangible,” “seemingly mystical capability,” that opens up a whole can of objectivist whoop-ass. Hell, it might be two cans. In fact, it might even be three.
Of course, that terrible swear word, "distortion", is the crucial element of the mix. But, as we all know, expensive equipment doesn't have any of that nasty stuff, or if it does, its distortion is of the finest pedigree, perfectly bred from the best parents. Since we have been told by all the important people that distortion has absolutely nothing to do with the sound of a system, then the quality of the sound must have something to do with magical characteristics of the components, that can be summed up by appropriately mysterious words like "synergy". Which means that all attempts to truly understand what contributes to good sound are doomed to fail ...
But I hear that a few, obviously misguided individuals are trying to bring "soul" to the table -- which equals truthful playback of the recording, ie. minimal distortion -- by reducing distortion elements to an absolutely lowest level, so they become subjectively inaudible. Poor, deluded fools are they ...
Let's just agree that a system with "soul" is as much a bovine dropping as anything audiophiles have ever come up with... Now a system become sentient? Really? And some person is able to perceive the sentience of said system but not others? So feet stomping or tapping become a reliable indication of a system worthiness?
The less that is said about this notion of "system soul" the better ... let's drop it ...
Let's just agree that a system with "soul" is as much a bovine dropping as anything audiophiles have ever come up with... Now a system become sentient? Really? And some person is able to perceive the sentience of said system but not others? So feet stomping or tapping become a reliable indication of a system worthiness?
The less that is said about this notion of "system soul" the better ... let's drop it ...
Sorry to say , but IMHO you are distorting the meaning of the thread. Several audiophile members have expressed valid opinions showing they understand the type of language that is being used by the starting post.
BTW, calling for dropping it with such poor arguments only increases my wish to debate it!
This is easy. 1) BAT Rex Preamp, 2) Tripoint Audio Troy, 3) Jade Audio ICs and SCs, and 4) HiFi Tuning Gold Fuses. Each of these provides musical beauty that compells you to listen without compromising resolution.
By all means please do debate the value of "Soul" in an electronic system ... We are going much further out than I feared .. Oh Well .. I yearn for more educative posts/threads ... of the kind that allow audiophiles to improve their systems or at least point them toward it ... All forums do experience those dry spells ... The good times will be back...
By all means please do debate the value of "Soul" in an electronic system ... We are going much further out than I feared .. Oh Well .. I yearn for more educative posts/threads ... of the kind that allow audiophiles to improve their systems or at least point them toward it ... All forums do experience those dry spells ... The good times will be back...
But as my wording is very poor I will quote the words from the site of someone you respect to make me understood:
"The sound of a high-end audio system is determined by a multitude of technical parameters. The higher the ability to understand and to control the sound implications of these parameters the less it becomes likely that the sonic soul of a stereo system is the result of coincidence."
As you should have guessed now it is Dieter Burmester opinion quoted from the Burmester site . I once read an interview with him in a french magazine where he expressed it even more poetically. Do you think that only great and recognized poets should be allowed to write poems?
