Conrad Johnson Premier 350 ... an Amazing amplifier ...

FrantzM

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Jm Lab is 92 dB with a rather easy to drive field coil woofer .. 6 dB more efficient than the TAD CR1 ...
 

XV-1

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May 24, 2010
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Joe

Good to hear from you again. We missed you, if you know what I mean ;)
 

joeinid

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Mar 14, 2011
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Hi

Could this just be a matter of .... POWER. The TAD CR-1 is a 86 dB speaker... I would think that the more powerful amplifier will sound , well, more powerful. Also how many day have you heard both to form a more ...well... objective impression? Were the level somewhat matched? We are not talking about precision 0.1 dB thing , just a gross SPL reading with same material with something like the Rat Shack SPL meter?
I am now a fan of huge power regardless of speaker sensitivity ... 86 dB is low sensitivity and I wouldn't be surprised that real measured sensitivity would be much lower around 83 dB call this a hunch... I have heard the TAD and this is reference speaker ... It requires a bit of power though to give its best. I am a disciple of Tom Danley on the subject of amplifier power (and other things too) , the more the better unless you're dealing with 94 dB + and even then :) ...

Joe.. If I were you I would slow down on the purchase of gear and simply enjoy one of the wonderful amplifiers you have .. I will stress there is no condescension in this advice. I do know the feeling of new toys and had to force myself to come off the endless experimentation.. Your stable of gear is superb and should likely provide you with hours of joy. Enjoy the Music

Thank you and I take no harm in your comments. In fact I appreciate them very much. I have not volume matched anything and just going by the seat of my pants. The CR-1 is rated at 86 but measures about 1 db higher and yes I understand more power is always better, everything else being equal. I am very soon off the merry go round. A GAT for the CJ 350 and a better source is all I want. I think the CR-1's (and I) crave more power than the Dart 108 puts out. I had resigned myself to never being able to own a CJ 350. Then fate shined on me ;) If the CJ 350 had been available before the Dart, I might not have jumped on it. Could I live happily with the Dart 108? Of course!!!!!

At the risk of repeating myself, all is a question of properly matching cables and speakers. Used with wrong system the Dartzeel will sound polite as you say. But I have to say I heard the Dartzeel sounding great and very "impolite" with a pair of JMLab Grande Utopia!

Unfortunately I have not experimented enough with cables - neither interconnect nor AC power. In time I will.

Jm Lab is 92 dB with a rather easy to drive field coil woofer .. 6 dB more efficient than the TAD CR1 ...

I think the TADs need to be driven a little harder than I have been to wake them up.

Joe

Good to hear from you again. We missed you, if you know what I mean ;)

Thank you very much my friend. I've missed you guys as well.
 

andromedaaudio

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I meant that in a positive way microstrip , i do like your system especially with the maxx 3 s.

Joenid ,the thing what i meant is that , if you would have a 92 db efficient speaker you " might " have liked the dart better , there are a lot of variables
 

joeinid

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Mar 14, 2011
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Joenid ,the thing what i meant is that , if you would have a 92 db efficient speaker you " might " have liked the dart better , there are a lot of variables

Thanks for the clarification. I understand, I tend to do things backwards. I was able to get the Dart first and I've tried (and am trying) it on a few speakers I had/have. I am VERY impressed with the Dart as well as the CJ 350. All the other speakers are way more efficient. I am not saying I don't like the Dart. I love it. I hope the CJ 350 smooths out a bit from use. I don't know its full history and plan on having it checked out to make sure it's up to spec.

Hey, I am having too much fun with this stuff. At this level, it's all good, just slightly different flavors.
 

microstrip

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LL21

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microstrip

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Microstrip, you're running Sound Lab A1s, right?

They are my "official" speakers, but as there is always a place for invited quality speakers in my listening room, they are idling now.
 

asiufy

Industry Expert/VIP Donor
Jul 8, 2011
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Hey Joe,

I know the feeling you're getting with the CJ alongside the Dartzeel!
I've had a few other amps here along with the 108, as I was afraid my speakers (then a pair of Dynaudio C4s) were going to be a problem for the Dartzeel.
I've tested monsters like a 800w ML stereo amp (forgot the model), Krell 402e, Krell 750, Halcro, Pass Labs X150.
Initially, playing all these muscular amps, I got the same feeling you're getting now, that fullness to the sound is indeed very impressive, and it makes it seem like the 108 is lacking. But after a couple of days, I'd switch back to the Dartzeel, and the absurd transparency would hit me immediately, and I'd forget completely about all that bass I was getting with the muscle amps :D
So, I decided to keep the 108, and upgraded to the Dynaudio Temptation, an easier to drive speaker. Now I have the best of both worlds :D Huge bass, with all the Dartzeel magic, that no other amp could get even close.
 

joeinid

Well-Known Member
Mar 14, 2011
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Hey Joe,

I know the feeling you're getting with the CJ alongside the Dartzeel!
I've had a few other amps here along with the 108, as I was afraid my speakers (then a pair of Dynaudio C4s) were going to be a problem for the Dartzeel.
I've tested monsters like a 800w ML stereo amp (forgot the model), Krell 402e, Krell 750, Halcro, Pass Labs X150.
Initially, playing all these muscular amps, I got the same feeling you're getting now, that fullness to the sound is indeed very impressive, and it makes it seem like the 108 is lacking. But after a couple of days, I'd switch back to the Dartzeel, and the absurd transparency would hit me immediately, and I'd forget completely about all that bass I was getting with the muscle amps :D
So, I decided to keep the 108, and upgraded to the Dynaudio Temptation, an easier to drive speaker. Now I have the best of both worlds :D Huge bass, with all the Dartzeel magic, that no other amp could get even close.

Hi asiufy,

Thanks for the tips. I do plan on going back and forth to see what's different. I still need a preamp that will mate well with the CJ 350 and Dart 108. I am hoping the GAT will satisfy on both fronts. Any opinion on that plan? I still need some guidance. Of course I'd like to compare the Dart 108/18 combo with the CJ350/GAT combo to make the fight somewhat fair, but that will not happen anytime soon.
 

asiufy

Industry Expert/VIP Donor
Jul 8, 2011
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Joe,

I don't see it as a "fight", more like a "battle for your preference" :D
You're in a very enviable position, where you can listen to both, long term, and make an informed decision! So, enjoy them both, and when the preamps come, keep at it, because at least you'll get a lot of enjoyment out of the tests!


cheers,
alexandre
 

joeinid

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Mar 14, 2011
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Thanks alexandre!

I like your words better "battle for your preference" seems more appropriate. From others experiences, I was told the GAT will help smooth out the Pr 350 and make magic with it. I guess the NHB-18 will make magic with the NHB-108 as well, so it will be interesting, if down the road, I can locate a the Dart preamp and play with that using the Zeel 50 Ohm cables. I think it will be kind of like the songs on the cd I like better are not the ones that are the hits first. I hope that made sense.
 

Tonepub

New Member
Jun 3, 2011
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Owned a 350 for about five years, definitely one of my favorite SS amps. Great musicality and never found a pair of speakers it wouldn't drive. A big bonus as a piece of reference gear... Unless one is going to spend crazy money on an amp, I can't imagine a better choice in SS.
 

mep

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Anyone know of one for sale?
 

Tonepub

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Jun 3, 2011
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They usually don't stay for sale on the used market very long. If you find a clean one, jump on it. Should you decide it's not to your taste, it will be no problem getting back out of it.
 

microstrip

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Anyone know of one for sale?

Mep,
Although I loved the amplifier I would not buy it without a matching cj preamplifer.
 

Tonepub

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Jun 3, 2011
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Can't say I really had that result with mine, however, I certainly didn't use it with everything. I did have great success with the Nagra preamps, Aesthetix, McIntosh and Manley to name a few. It was not as synergistic of a match with ARC and Burmester.

Really loved it with the ACT 2, ET5 and GAT.
 

joeinid

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Mar 14, 2011
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Can't say I really had that result with mine, however, I certainly didn't use it with everything. I did have great success with the Nagra preamps, Aesthetix, McIntosh and Manley to name a few. It was not as synergistic of a match with ARC and Burmester.

Really loved it with the ACT 2, ET5 and GAT.

Hi Jeff,

It's great to hear from you again. I remember you waxing poetic about the CJ Pr. 350 and always wanted one from the day I read your review. Thank you!!! I really need to pair it with a GAT at some point. My Burmester 077 is a decent match but it really needs a tube preamp. My Burmester mono 911mk3's should be here in a little while, should be a lot of fun! I can't wait. Another amp that does it for me.

Joe
 
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Tonepub

New Member
Jun 3, 2011
116
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GAT is an excellent choice, though even a nice ACT2/series two isn't bad either... That really is a particularly good combination. The Burmester isn't bad, but once you get a CJ pre in there, you will see what I mean. Interesting, and wonder if anyone else has had this result, I found the ACT 2/S2 more compatible with a wider range of power amps than I did the Premier 350 with other preamps. Crazy.
 

joeinid

Well-Known Member
Mar 14, 2011
1,543
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I mentioned above in one of my earlier posts about me hearing a slightly forward treble on the CJ 350. Well, I have now come to the conclusion that my silver speaker jumpers is responsible for the perceived brightness, NOT the amp as I first thought. I replaced the silver ones with some Belden 5000 jumpers I had on hand. All I can say is that open, wide and detailed soundstage I was hearing disappeared with the Belden jumpers along with the brighter treble. The Belden jumper sound was smoother but the life was almost sucked out of the speakers. So more experimentation is in order and I need to find cables and jumpers that suit my preferences. So everything does matter.
 
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