Who's selling their Continuum Table now?
- Thread starter DaveyF
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Turntable set up is both art and science. It takes time, ranging from days to weeks to optimize a vinyl set up. Throw in an unfamiliar room with iffy acoustics, poor power, ancillary electronics and speakers with which you may be unfamiliar (if you are sharing a room with other manufacturers) and it's easy to understand how even a SOTA turntable with well matched arm/cartridge might not achieve their potential... or even sound bad.
Show conditions...
Try opening a curtain a tiny amount, or adding a few metal chairs. Then, add a lot of people. The good part, I suppose, is that most vendors pick records that let their tables strut their stuff, surprise the listener, or generate some other response that keeps things the best they can be under the circumstances. Fortunately, most vendors are so tired, or in such a daze, that they don't know the difference themselves. I suppose equipment exists that performs decently even under bad conditions, however. That is like a review that says the movie was awful, but the actor was great. Hey, I'll accept that!
Human nature...
The attendees may not like a room, and they may blame it on something that has little to do with the real reason. Vendors who share a room seldom, if ever, accept personal responsibility for a room's failure. It was the other vendor, the electricity, etc. Anyway, It is difficult to critically listen at a show for vendors and attendees alike. I suppose we should simply play what we like at shows and try to have some fun because we are human, and machines are just that, machines. Nobody's perfect.
Win
Saskia Turntables
I remember a few years back listening to the Continuum at one of the Stereophlle shows in LA. It was in a fairly small room and the sound in the room was very poor. What I remember most, was the rep that was there was very disrespectful and rude, he seemed to have a 'Holier than thou' attitude to all of the visitors to the room and would only play the music that he thought was appropriate. At the time I walked in the room was empty and I remember the rep asking me to close the door softly as he was in the middle of a listening session....problem was, I was the only listener in the room...besides him
I stayed for about five minutes and then moved on, the rep wouldn't play any of my music anyway. The table looked great but sounded marginal at best..OTOH,.I'm sure it was the room
. What I remember most, was the rep that was there was very disrespectful and rude, he seemed to have a 'Holier than thou' attitude to all of the visitors to the room and would only play the music that he thought was appropriate. At the time I walked in the room was empty and I remember the rep asking me to close the door softly as he was in the middle of a listening session....problem was, I was the only listener in the room...besides himI stayed for about five minutes and then moved on, the rep wouldn't play any of my music anyway
. The table looked great but sounded marginal at best..OTOH,.I'm sure it was the room
<snip>
I stayed for about five minutes and then moved on, the rep wouldn't play any of my music anyway
Davey
What makes you so sure it had to be the room?
Frantz, I'm fairly certain it was the room, due to the fact that the room had no acoustic treatments, was long and narrow and the rep had left the glass window behind the speaker's exposed. I seem to remember the system was utilizing the Peak Consult speakers. These were the then top-of-line speaker that MF had gushed over. Problem was that the speakers needed a much larger room than they were demo'ed in. Could it have been the system and not the room, maybe, but I doubt it.
Right; my issue is with any claim that it's the turntable and not the room or other factors, most of which you listed... Overall the sound may have been unworthy of the sticker price, but I can't see how one can easily pinpoint a specific parameter...
Hi
I try as much as possible to be diplomatic but let's be frank for a few posts we can then revert to being overly nice. if you price an item in the stratosphere... people please take a deep breath and then think 1 8 5 0 0 0 US Dollars .. A TT, something to turn an LP and make music ... ,It ought to overwhelm. it cannot be a ho-hum .. The room wasn't good enough the person presenting the equipment wasn't up to it ..etc.. it doesn't inspire confidence to part with let's not forget close to 200,000 US DOLLARS with a subpar presentation ... We have been committing in this thread and many others the sin of equating price with performance .. We are willing ourselves to think the Caliburn is indeed superior ..Is it? is it really? Based on what ? When you dominate head and shoulders in price you better dominate in performance? is it the case with the Caliburn? So far no one has come to the front and said so .. only conjectures to why it did not sound so great in shows .. Some other tables seem to have fared better in shows, same or similar ....
I try as much as possible to be diplomatic but let's be frank for a few posts we can then revert to being overly nice. if you price an item in the stratosphere... people please take a deep breath and then think 1 8 5 0 0 0 US Dollars .. A TT, something to turn an LP and make music ... ,It ought to overwhelm. it cannot be a ho-hum .. The room wasn't good enough the person presenting the equipment wasn't up to it ..etc.. it doesn't inspire confidence to part with let's not forget close to 200,000 US DOLLARS with a subpar presentation ... We have been committing in this thread and many others the sin of equating price with performance .. We are willing ourselves to think the Caliburn is indeed superior ..Is it? is it really? Based on what ? When you dominate head and shoulders in price you better dominate in performance? is it the case with the Caliburn? So far no one has come to the front and said so .. only conjectures to why it did not sound so great in shows .. Some other tables seem to have fared better in shows, same or similar ....
That's exactly what I meant by a huge sticker price being a double edged sword. To be fair, I didn't hear any of the systems displayed in the function rooms on the floor above the casinos of the Venetian that sounded remotely good that year. For the price of everything in that room however, you couldn't help but expect more. Ha! There's that word!
No, price does not always equate with performance. I've never heard the Caliburn so I can't comment on it's performance. But yes, putting that kind of a price on most things raises expectations.
In many ways, this is illustrative what a double edge sword the big audio shows have become. With the demise of the brick and mortar model, manufacturers are increasing dependent on shows. But a bad show, even for reasons out of the manufacturer's control, can really damage your brand.
IME, there are some standouts who always do "good show". Jeff Catalano of High Water Sound and Dan Meinwald of EAR come to mind...
I don't think the rooms are the problem. I have set up a 11x12 room to sound fantastic at our Santa Cruz place, without any special treatments, windows behind the speakers and other verbotens notwithstanding.
Those setups at the hotels are expensive to rent and haul stuff around, a major undertaking just to get equipment in the room and working. Unfortunately, it would also take probably several days to a week to tune and optimize the systems to the room, time that the exhibitors often don't have.
That is unfortunate for the exhibitors, they have to rely on flash as much as substance.
On the other hand, if they don't have the roadies to make the stuff work in an expeditious schedule, one wonders as well about their general audiophile chops.
Those setups at the hotels are expensive to rent and haul stuff around, a major undertaking just to get equipment in the room and working. Unfortunately, it would also take probably several days to a week to tune and optimize the systems to the room, time that the exhibitors often don't have.
That is unfortunate for the exhibitors, they have to rely on flash as much as substance.
On the other hand, if they don't have the roadies to make the stuff work in an expeditious schedule, one wonders as well about their general audiophile chops.
I have heard the continuum criterion /lyra titan in an expensive set up at a dealer , consisting of kharma exquisite midi , zanden 3000 ,zanden phono 1200, zanden 9600 .
It sounded good , i definetively would choose it over the sme , is it better soundwise i dont know, i need actual personal expirience in my system , i suspect yes , i would like to have vacuum hold down also
To hear good sound: i like my own off course and i like well set up systems in a good dealers showroom ,one who knows his trade .
Shows usually have very poor sound overhere , makes me question the fact if the people importing the goods really do understand how to put the right components together .
In some cases i think , some would be better off showing a static display
Some do need a " professional set up guy"
I do think a lot of demonstrations in an open space area of the hotel are the worst to get right , you have to be lucky with the room (or have the money)
Edit :
When i last was at the kharma factory/showroom 3 years ago , they had 2 caliburns on static display(unfortunately)
It sounded good , i definetively would choose it over the sme , is it better soundwise i dont know, i need actual personal expirience in my system , i suspect yes , i would like to have vacuum hold down also
To hear good sound: i like my own off course and i like well set up systems in a good dealers showroom ,one who knows his trade .
Shows usually have very poor sound overhere , makes me question the fact if the people importing the goods really do understand how to put the right components together .
In some cases i think , some would be better off showing a static display
Some do need a " professional set up guy"
I do think a lot of demonstrations in an open space area of the hotel are the worst to get right , you have to be lucky with the room (or have the money)
Edit :
When i last was at the kharma factory/showroom 3 years ago , they had 2 caliburns on static display(unfortunately)
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If a personor a company is producing any gear costing that much, said person must have the ability to judge the quality of the sound coming out of his/her gear. If you are asking me such an enormous amount of money it behooves you to provide me with a rationale when I am faced with the product. Else you allow me to forge doubts about your "audiophile chops" to paraphrase cjrrbw but also about your business acumen, something of importance when one considers that such purchase is unlikely to be a regular occurrence i-e a yearly affair ... I would like this company to be around when I need support at the very least, for repair, tuning, optimizing, updating since said performance may be surpassed by that of a much less dear gear... Since we, audiophiles, have proven to be a very tolerant and gullible lot, I can understand that we are expected to take a leap of faith from time to time, I know I have but the price tag make such a leap of faith more a quantum jump than a leap, with dangerous repercussions for mere mortals and that includes well-heeled audiophiles the other side of a billion worth.
Well enough for me about the Caliburn. I hope the new owner find the performance in line with the expenditure
There is a limit in ultimate fidelity with the vinyl format...take the RTR counterpart for example. Seems to me a $50K turntable or even less can suck every bit (no pun) of the music out of the vinyl that a Caliburn can if well sorted.
+$130,000 on my balance sheet.
+$130,000 on my balance sheet.
i don't think Jazdoc was referring to the ambient environment of the audio show room, or even floor feedback; i believe he was referring to the degree of tuning and fine adjustments (or lack thereof) that any tt can have at a show....and likely the degree of synergy of the supporting system.
the higher the potential resolution of any vinyl front end, tt, arm and cartridge, the more time and effort it takes to optimize it....and sometimes a very high resolution source that is 'off', is worse than a less capable source that is 'right'. i agree with Jazdoc that it can take days and weeks to really get things to sing sweetly.
personally i've listened to the Continuum Caliburn 5 or 6 times at shows. a couple of those times it did sound very, very good and i could understand what all the excitment was about. the other times it was all over the place.
I don't think anyone can argue with Jazdoc's observations about the attention to detail that needs to go with equipment with system sets that allow for very fine calibration. Looking at the Cobra tonearm's adjustment mechanisms, it does look seem that it is more cumbersome than say a Phantom, Talea (my brother has one) or especially easy arms like SMEs. I can't see how getting precise settings using washers instead of a say, a worm drive, could be easy. Still, I don't think it is an excuse for sounding poor at shows. JT can get the job done as many of you have told, Jeff did so good a job I ended up buying a TW and I heard many good sounding set ups that year. So getting good sound at a show is definitely possible. It probably won't be at full potential but good enough to make favorable impressions. Even if the Caliburn/Vitus/German Physik room didn't cost so much, the impression would still have been a poor one. Being extremely expensive only made it worse. Does that tell on the gear? It shouldn't. It should tell on the folks who chose the venue and couldn't adapt to it.
Sad thing is these hyper expensive pieces of gear aren't going to be stocked at a local salon. So it NEEDS shows. To go through the expense of effort to go to show and then give a poor impression is tragic. I really felt bad for those guys.
I apologize, as I do not know your real name. That said, cjfrbw, you do not know just how correct you are with this. "Major undertaking" can be at times quite an understatement.
There are shows, and then there are shows. The recent one in Melbourne was a typical one -- I didn't go to it but the reports indicated it was the usual fare in terms of SQ -- but we in the vicinity of Sydney have had slim pickings for decades now. The only relief was about 10 years ago, or thereabout; a special, all the stops out, showoff of how good audio could be using only the best of the best, set up by 3 distributors, taking turns to demonstrate. Even under those "ideal" conditions, meaning each system should have been fine tuned to the n'th degree, only 2 efforts came up to scratch: a vinyl rig did the Coal Train song brilliantly, the CD source was pretty lifeless. And the MBL with top of the line components, and the no. 1 ClearAudio TT for vinyl. They even had a female rep come over from MBL in Germany to make sure it was up to scratch. And it did a very fine job, enough to inspire me to get back into the audio game again ...
So it can be done right in shows. But as Mike indicated earlier, when very expensive gear fails to come to the mark, you end up coming away from the experience with a rather bad taste in the mouth ...
Frank
Returning to the OP.
Well I'm not sure where you get your information from but the US Continuum importer told me that the company is doing just fine, in business and building product. So I think that reports of issues with Continuum are greatly exaggerated and one should be very careful about spreading rumors.
Yeah, I see they have a full page ad in Stereophile and the report from CES says they're still taking orders and building!
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