Magico Q5 demo at Goodwin's

ack

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May 6, 2010
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Reviews are an art, and I am not that kind of artist, so please take the following comments with a grain of salt. The demo consisted of the Spectral SDR-4000 Pro CD player, 30SS preamp, 360 S2 monoblocs, MIT wiring, and a music server feeding hi-rez Reference Recordings to a Pacific Microsonics Model 2 HDCD A/D and D/A - vaunted by many (including yours truly) as the best piece of digital gear produced so far (and if you happen to know of a seller, I am looking for one). Unfortunately, no analog, and the demo was for only about 1hr with unfamiliar material, not ideal conditions to form a good opinion.

First, from a technical perspective, Alon Wolf claimed he tames the Beryllium tweeter's break-up mode at 50kHz with a custom surround around the cone. He tames the 9" woofers' break-up mode around 2.5kHz by positioning the lower woofer at an angle (see Magico pics) with respect to the rest, in order to introduce a 180 degree phase cancellation at that exact frequency. He claimed that Rohacell (of which his drivers are made) is the stiffest material he knows of (contrast this with Vandersteen's claims in a recent review of his Model 7's in Stereophile). He claimed that there are no cons with aluminum enclosures if done right, and he makes certain that the stiffness and dampness are optimized - hence the speaker's weight of 400lbs each; he also pointed out that other aluminum-based speakers like the Krell are not damped. I believe he claimed there about 1000 parts in each speaker. It is clear that a lot of thought has gone into engineering this product. Moreover, having purchased the machining company he used before, enables him to now drop the cost of this speaker by half.

Alon also claimed that he doesn't "voice" his speakers and that he doesn't use tubes for development, only solid state (and apparently high powered SS). One of the comments he made is that a lot of power is required for realistic rendition for things like drums and a soprano's voice, perhaps over 1,000W, and it was characteristic, according to Mr. Wolf, that at a recent demo in Portugal with Dartzeel amps, the amps were peaking at 1,400W (per their power meters; the speakers are an easy load at a nominal 4ohms with a minimum of about 3.5 if I recall correctly). With respect to enclosures, he believes that wood- or resin-based enclosures still store some energy, and that the Q5, being aluminum-based, offers 26% more internal volume than his own M5 despite the smaller box. With respect to ported vs. acoustic suspension designs (of which his designs are), he pointed out there is no theoretical reason for ports, except for perhaps one - and I missed what that was. Overall, the impression that he is extremely technically competent easily comes across, as did the impression that he thinks his designs are the best - when questioned what were the design goals for this speaker, the response was to produce a speaker like a speaker should sound (this striked me as some of the comments a couple of very vocal pro-Magico commenters on audiogon would make). Finally, the speaker is unassuming in size, and would easily fit in most rooms.

Moving on to the sound, the initial impression is that Alon keeps raising the bar for himself and for the entire industry. The sweet spot is too narrow, but who cares. The speaker exhibited a stunning electrostatic-like coherence (was completely unable to tell one driver from the other), extreme low-level resolution, micro-dynamics (on par with electrostatics) and macro-dynamics, and truly excelled in rendering a lifelike-size image of the human voice with true you-are-there presence of small ensembles - the amps certainly helped in this respect. This is the stuff that makes a speaker a truly worthy high-end contender. The Q5 was also effortless with the one large scale orchestral piece played, too short an experience to be able to tell more. One area where the *system* severely lacked was rendition of the kickdrum, and I don't know where to attribute this (e.g. could be the recording). Piano, on the other hand, was sensationally reproduced. In the lower registers, I found the bass extremely fast, tight and full bodied, perhaps downright thrilling and certainly deep in the right spot. The box itself offered no colorations that I could detect.

At this point, I will also point out that I have not been a fan of smaller Magicos like the V2 or V3 with the large orchestral music that I play, and in fact when I went in to audition the V3's with these same amps, my conclusion was that my MartinLogans driven by a lesser Spectral amp back then sounded overall better (despite the fact the V3's edged them out in certain areas), and I ended up purchasing the amps instead. Yes, from this you can conclude that I now prefer my ML's even more over then V3's. On the other hand, I have been thoroughly impressed with more expensive offerings like the M5, so chances are that if and when I go back for a private audition of the Q5 with familiar material I will be thoroughly impressed as well. But I withhold such judgment until that day, and what I heard yesterday was certainly an overall excellent first impression.

The bottom line is that, despite this short audition, I can't see how this speaker will fail to please the majority of potential buyers; however, from an absolute perspective, I am not yet convinced that this is exactly how a speaker should sound either (e.g. see kickdrum comment); I suspect if one were to put it next to an ML Statement e2 (at $60K retail), it would probably be unable to hold its own; and an interesting comparison will be against the ML CLX coupled with subwoofers. Finally, warm thanks to Goodwin's staff for their usual extreme professionalism - what a class act, and a well executed demo (but why no analog???).
 

Steve Williams

Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
Great review Peter.

I haven't heard the Q5 but by all accounts including your own it is a terrific speaker.

As to the narrow sweet spot I have gone on record here and at other forums that when I heard the M5 it was one of the best speakers I have ever heard BUT just as you discovered with the Q5, it also has a narrow unforgiving sweet spot
 

brianherlihy

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Great review, thanks. From my experience with the magico M5 it too has what I would describe as a linear base. Nice, tight, but unable to pressurize the room when the kick drum comes in. I heard the M6 at Goodwins, it gets there on the base but was never as cohesive as the M5s. I heard the M5 with JL Audio F212 (a pair of them) at Goodwins and it was really special. I am a Magico fan and have ordered the Q5 so I am sure my views are tainted. I also believe no speaker or system can be everything to everyone for every type of music and that is where preferences come in. ACK seems you get that to and did a great job on your review given your preferences. And I totally agree that the guys at Goodwin are great. I have found myself making out of the way trips from Boston just to see them.

On another note, I have never met Alon but he seems a bit of a tough guy. Great guy if you agree with him and doesn't have the time for you if you don't. I will be quite put off if that is him posting on. Audiogon and avguide.
 

Steve Williams

Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
On another note, I have never met Alon but he seems a bit of a tough guy. Great guy if you agree with him and doesn't have the time for you if you don't. I will be quite put off if that is him posting on. Audiogon and avguide.

caveat emptor
 

ack

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Brian, total agreement on the M5 reproduction of the kick drum, and I failed to make the connection here with the Q5. I heard the M5/JL combo too, and it was darn spectacular - if you are getting that combo, please provide your address and kindly leave the keys on the door :D
 

Steve Williams

Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
Brian, total agreement on the M5 reproduction of the kick drum, and I failed to make the connection here with the Q5. I heard the M5/JL combo too, and it was darn spectacular - if you are getting that combo, please provide your address and kindly leave the keys on the door :D

Only thing better is a pair of JL213's but I think Brian and I have had this conversation perhaps 6 months ago and IIRC the size of his Manhattan loft would preclude that.... (Weren't the ceilings 12 feet high..if so I would consider twin Gothams but if I went either way I would definitely go DRC as well as incorporating both subs with the DRC
 

MylesBAstor

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Thanks for the update Peter. It sure sound like they got better sound at Goodwins than at the CES. Maybe someday will try to get down to Overture to hear the speakers.

I will say this about Alon. He was gracious enough to put on the 1/2 inch Tape Project tapes at CES when I wanted to hear his speakers :) OTHOH, that's probably the reason he has Irv Gross around. I've know Irv since his days at Krell and he is a great guy!
 

Gregadd

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ack. I remember Alon saying the Q5 was 3.1 ohms @12khz. I did not hear a problem.

I guess bass is truly room dependent. There was verbal reaction to the Q5 bass at Overture. Some blurted out while the music was still playing, "No need for a subwoofer."

I'm glad you got to sit in the sweet spot. I imagined that coherence and imaging could be better.



Thanks for a great review.
 

brianherlihy

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Apr 21, 2010
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Hi Reginald, i think the response to the bass will be music (or preference) dependent. The reason i say this is that Goodwin's has a pretty impressive room. i haven't hear Overture's so i can't compare, but Goodwin's main listening room is far superior to any retail shop i have heard in New York. ACK may have more input, but i think his input on the Magico's on bass i pretty accurate from my experience. my point is that i think there is no need for a subwoofer with the big Magico's unless you wan the 'kick drum (i.e. big orchestra, deep organ, etc) - in my experience i don't think that Magico can deliver that on its own.
 

Gregadd

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Terry still has the Magico at Overture. Debate will not solve this issue. I think bass was the Q5's forte'. I'll let Terry defend his room.
 

Husk

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Ack, Very nice review. What is the approxomate room size at Goodwins? I also have a pair on order for a room that is 16 x 22 x 10.
 

ack

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Ack, Very nice review. What is the approxomate room size at Goodwins? I also have a pair on order for a room that is 16 x 22 x 10.

You know, they mentioned the dimensions a number of times, I've been in that room numerous times over the last 15+ years, and I just don't know for sure; but probably a little larger than yours; it fit 12 listeners plus staff and Magico's two guys, speakers and equipment, with plenty of breathing room, and still full of custom damping on the walls and ceiling. Mr. Wolf asserted that his speakers are not that room dependent - I take this with a grain of salt.

But you can see the room at http://www.goodwinshighend.com/facility.htm#osiris and judge for yourself. This photo was probably taken around the time of a similar seminar of the Avalon Osiris over a decade ago - that was a hell of an experience back then as well, and I still remember the rendition of Ariel Ramirez's Misa Criolla with Jose Carreras; nothing like that full-size bass drum that moved your soul!
 

ack

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Although I still listen to my speakers after the Q5 experience, the Q5 sounded so much more realistic, and they were not even broken in yet... not sure what I am going to do next... On a positive note, I know I don't have $54K at this moment :)
 

ack

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An update to this... I went out and bought the Reference Recordings HDCD that they used in the demo (Tchaikovsky's Mazeppa from "Symphonic Dances from the Opera"; recall, theirs was the the hi-rez version), in order to see how my system would compare with the Magico, given that the electronics are on par with the demo's... So the following are probably the combination of the Q5 and the hi-rez source, but what I am hearing at home is classes lower in transparency; there is quite bit of haziness compared to what the Q5 reproduced, which truly reproduced the sense of a symphony hall with extreme transparency. This is going to be a heck of a speaker to beat...
 

Husk

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Brian, Ack and Greg, Have you any of you been following the review thread on the Gon on the Tital speakers? I know it is being written by mostly users, but I do not remember ever reading as many positive reviews about a new speaker as on that thread. Just wondering if any of you have heard them and how they compare to the Q5?
 

Gregadd

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ack

VIP/Donor & WBF Founding Member
May 6, 2010
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Yes I have been following the Tidal discussion and I never comment on anything I don't know anything about, so I have not participated. But since you asked, frankly, I am always skeptical about the latest and greatest, especially about a company that allegedly offers cutting edge electronics plus speakers and just came out of the blue. *BUT* so did Soulution and they appear to be the exception, so I could very well be wrong.

What I can tell you, though, is what Mr. Alon said during his presentation as well (and left out of my review on purpose) - that these ceramic drivers have nasty break-up modes and that some people find them appealing. My experience is with Avalons and Kharma which are using the same midrange more or less. There are certainly a lot of people who like Avalons and Kharmas.

Although I am not a dedicated fan of any manufacturer or technology, yet still have my own preferences like anyone else, I can tell you that, unlike most speaker manufacturers, I do appreciate the fact that Magico, Dynaudio, Focal and a few others go out of their way to address the 'big problem' that loudspeakers are, from all angles, including building their own drivers and trying different materials for their boxes. I keep reminding myself that so many other manufacturers don't, and simply build yet another MDF-based box with off-the-shelf drivers (some claim that theirs are custom-made - I don't know what that means, really), like Tidal I believe.

So basically, I like out-of-the-ordinary things, hence my Spectral gear and my interest in Magico, and there you have my preferences and biases. I did contact the Tidal importer long ago about pricing and got a cold shoulder. But I am still willing to listen to them if given the opportunity, and others like it (e.g. Evolution Accoustics - same Accuton drivers).

Apologies for this long contrived response... but I just had a fabulous glass (or two) of this Sosabe Cellars Cabernet :eek: Highly recommended!
 

Husk

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Apr 20, 2010
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Ack, I contacted them also and got about the response that you got. But I do find it interesting that some of the reviews are from people who have listened to them and were not owners and still raved about them. I guess the only way to here them at this point would be to travel to Co. and give them a listem. At this price point, it probable makes a lot of sense. On the latest post, it sounds like they will be setting up a company owned outlet in the US and will be selling them direct.
 

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