Equalizers - Is it time to take them out of the closet?

Johnny Vinyl

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
May 16, 2010
8,570
51
38
Calgary, AB
With all of the compressed media out there, is there a value to bring back the equalizer as a part of our system setup? I know it's not a panacea and I know it can't correct bad recordings, but it should allow for a more pleasant playback to some degree.

Back in the late 70's I had an ADC Sound Shaper Two equalizer, and I enjoyed it very much for a few years. I was able to "shape" the music and accentuate or decrease frequancy output to my liking. I knew it was a false or second-hand adjustment, but it worked if done diligently. I'm kind of thinking it could be a useful part of a system today.
 

fas42

Addicted To Best
Jan 8, 2011
3,973
3
0
NSW Australia
Digital equalisation should do the job nicely, without any nasty side effects. Personally, I would not have the EQ happening during playback, yet another possible interference source to damage the SQ; rather, work out the right settings for your situation and and filter and save a custom equalised digital version of the album. Pretty obviously this favours a music server approach, but would probably be the best way to go ...

Frank
 

Phelonious Ponk

New Member
Jun 30, 2010
8,677
23
0
I have a bunch of digital eq pre-sets. I don't find that I use them all that much, but they are handy when listening at very low volume or when listening to music that just has a very bad tonal balance. Software-based digital eq can't really damage SQ, other than the fact that it changes your file to something other than bit perfect. But that's the idea, so not to worry. This is a realm in which your ears are not only king, but God. Nothing else matters but what you hear. So listen. Adjust. Start flat. Move in tiny little steps and understand that subtractive is often more effective than additive. Vocals recessed? Try cutting the mid-bass at the bottom of and just below the vocal range by a couple of dB. Excess "bass" may be crowding the vocals and boosting the higher frequencies might just cause more problems. Etc....

Tim
 

Johnny Vinyl

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
May 16, 2010
8,570
51
38
Calgary, AB
I'm thinking more in the playback end of things, but your point about digitizing a saved equalized copy makes sense. It does lead me to ask why you wouldn't use it during playback, if it could improve the playback experience?
 

Johnny Vinyl

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
May 16, 2010
8,570
51
38
Calgary, AB
I have a bunch of digital eq pre-sets. I don't find that I use them all that much, but they are handy when listening at very low volume or when listening to music that just has a very bad tonal balance. Software-based digital eq can't really damage SQ, other than the fact that it changes your file to something other than bit perfect. But that's the idea, so not to worry. This is a realm in which your ears are not only king, but God. Nothing else matters but what you hear. So listen. Adjust. Start flat. Move in tiny little steps and understand that subtractive is often more effective than additive. Vocals recessed? Try cutting the mid-bass at the bottom of and just below the vocal range by a couple of dB. Excess "bass" may be crowding the vocals and boosting the higher frequencies might just cause more problems. Etc....

Tim

That was always my approach when I had the ADC.

Do you think it makes sense though to use it today, let's say on something like Adele 21.
 

fas42

Addicted To Best
Jan 8, 2011
3,973
3
0
NSW Australia
I'm thinking more in the playback end of things, but your point about digitizing a saved equalized copy makes sense. It does lead me to ask why you wouldn't use it during playback, if it could improve the playback experience?
Only from the point of view that digital circuitry, which is what does the filtering, is intrinsically nasty stuff when operating at the same time as high quality analogue. Think putting the naked circuitry of a high quality preamp inside a PC, not a good move I'd suggest. Digital filtering is just another form of that sort of electronic circuitry, so if you can take it completely out of the equation during playback it can only help. As always, everything depends on everything; at the very least if you do an experiment comparing filtering during playback, versus playing a file that's already been filtered you may perceive a benefit.

Frank
 
Last edited:

Robh3606

Well-Known Member
Aug 24, 2010
1,483
473
1,155
Destiny
How are Equalizers going to fix dynamic compression?? They work in the Frequency domain. I would think dynamic range expanders like the DBX ones from the 80's would be a more appropriate tool. Not only that but using them to "correct" specific recordings is going to drive you nuts.

Rob:)
 

FrantzM

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
6,455
29
405
We need in these days the fertile imagination of Real Audio reproduction gurus like Bob Carver ... The Carver expander on the Phase Liner preamp would be useful in these instances and with all the DSP available today . If he put his mind to it ...
 

Johnny Vinyl

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
May 16, 2010
8,570
51
38
Calgary, AB
How are Equalizers going to fix dynamic compression?? They work in the Frequency domain. I would think dynamic range expanders like the DBX ones from the 80's would be a more appropriate tool. Not only that but using them to "correct" specific recordings is going to drive you nuts.

Rob:)

I'm just asking the question....I don't know enough about the technical side of things to have even mentioned dynamic range expanders. On the surface it seemed to me that Equalizers could have a positive impact.
 

FrantzM

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
6,455
29
405
I'm just asking the question....I don't know enough about the technical side of things to have even mentioned dynamic range expanders. On the surface it seemed to me that Equalizers could have a positive impact.

This side of your basic and simlistic Equalizers there are more sophisticated and needed form of tone controls (ooops) Sorry .. Room Correction systems. So far the response from most audiophiles has been lukewarm.. Myself included :eek: ...
There exist various Room Correction System and they can be set to "correct" recordings too.

Correcting recordings on an individual basis is a Pandora box. Thee is no clear target and IMO youquickly destroy the very essence of High Fidelity .. chasing the pleasant sound of the moment ...
I must however say that Room Correction on the other end provide a degree of correction of Room and also in many cases loudspeakers too, that bring much better reproduction hence enjoyment.

I am rebuilding and I see myself more and more moving in that direction... after having heard what Audyssey did on anAVR-based system. It was that from the Denon AVR4xxx a 2011 or 2012 model... Stupefying. I did it myself for a friend during the week-end, here in Haiti . When I get back to my home in Miami .. I will start experimenting with either a DeQX or a TaCT
 

Robh3606

Well-Known Member
Aug 24, 2010
1,483
473
1,155
Destiny
I'm just asking the question....I don't know enough about the technical side of things to have even mentioned dynamic range expanders. On the surface it seemed to me that Equalizers could have a positive impact.

Oh OK;)

Well I use use some in my set-up and I like what they do. I have 3 Urei 539 cut only in my HT set-up. They are on the front 3 channels. I can use the digital EQ available in my Pre Pro an Integra 9.8 on the rears. I have another JBL Synthesis EQ on the Subs that I have yet to set-up.

I use the Urei's for room tune they are 1/3 octave cut only. They are set and forget using an RTA much like your old ADC Sound Shaper. I used to have the Dynaco EQ that I built from a kit and used the ADC RTA to set it up.

I also had the Phase Linear 4000 back in the day and it had a Peak Unlimiter and Downward Expander as well as Noise reduction built in. It worked quite well.

Rob:)
 

Attachments

  • EQ's..jpg
    EQ's..jpg
    74.3 KB · Views: 88

Johnny Vinyl

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
May 16, 2010
8,570
51
38
Calgary, AB
Let me put a "whoa" on this....I understand completely that using an equalizer is not a panacea (as I said in the OP). I also appreciate the importance of room correction software et al, but that's not my point. All I wanted to find out is if using an equalizer would make a bad recording a little more palpable when using said equalizer. And if so, should we not reintroduce them into out systems? Now, if the equalizer route is a mistake (what were they good for then?), so be it.
 

Robh3606

Well-Known Member
Aug 24, 2010
1,483
473
1,155
Destiny
All I wanted to find out is if using an equalizer would make a bad recording a little more palpable when using said equalizer. And if so, should we not reintroduce them into out systems?

Well are you talking analog or digital?? If you go digital you can make up a set of presets like Tim does and use them as seems appropriate. As far as analog you would be much better off getting a parametric. Last thing you want to do is be fidlin with multiple 1/3 or 1/10 filters.

Rob:)
 

mep

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
9,481
17
0
Hey John, I have just what you need. A Pioneer Spec series equalizer made its way to me with a bunch of other gear from the original owner. It would look real cool with your Pioneer IA. Each of the faders light up so you can see how much you have mucked with the FR from across the room.
 

Johnny Vinyl

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
May 16, 2010
8,570
51
38
Calgary, AB
Well are you talking analog or digital?? If you go digital you can make up a set of presets like Tim does and use them as seems appropriate. As far as analog you would be much better off getting a parametric. Last thing you want to do is be fidlin with multiple 1/3 or 1/10 filters.

Rob:)

Thanks Rob. And I'm talking mostly analogue.......just really getting into the digital domain, so I have yet to learn even more.
 

Johnny Vinyl

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
May 16, 2010
8,570
51
38
Calgary, AB
Hey John, I have just what you need. A Pioneer Spec series equalizer made its way to me with a bunch of other gear from the original owner. It would look real cool with your Pioneer IA. Each of the faders light up so you can see how much you have mucked with the FR from across the room.

Cool! And yes that would look really smart! I love the Pioner SPEC components and have actually been looking around for one of the SPEC power amps. Not cheap for one in good condition.
 

rbbert

Well-Known Member
Dec 12, 2010
3,820
239
1,000
Reno, NV
I think the general experience (certainly mine) with analog EQ is that active circuitry will have obvious detrimental effects on sound quality until you get to very expensive parametrics (e.g., Cello Palette). Passive (cut only) graphic EQ's may not be too bad, I don't have experience with them.

I use digital EQ (SSL and/or Sonos) VST plug-ins within Izotope RX or Adobe Audition to make permanent changes to audio files when they are poorly recorded or mastered, but usually can't help compression in that way (or any good way, IME)
 

Roger Dressler

Industry Expert
Aug 4, 2011
129
2
93
Oregon
With all of the compressed media out there, is there a value to bring back the equalizer as a part of our system setup?
The need for equalization has nothing to do with bitrate compression. Any format can benefit from EQ. And as others have said, EQ cannot fix what lossy compression does, but it surely can reduce some of that glassiness that passes for "digital quality" internet radio. :rolleyes:

Back in the late 70's I had an ADC Sound Shaper Two equalizer, and I enjoyed it very much for a few years. I was able to "shape" the music and accentuate or decrease frequancy output to my liking. I knew it was a false or second-hand adjustment, but it worked if done diligently. I'm kind of thinking it could be a useful part of a system today.
I had the SAE Model VII, which was very convenient for tone tweaking as it had both channels ganged on each octave band slider. And therein lies a big problem, especially for surround systems. How to make effective tone controls that are easy to use. Parametric EQ is not ideal for this. A tilt function, with adjustable inflection points would be more convenient -- if ganged across all outputs. So far, I've not see that.

I have on several occasions inserted a Rane EQ into the analog 2-ch path feeding my surround system so I could determine what manner of tweak to apply, but that's temporary. Once the fix is in the PCM file, it's out of the chain.

I find the more specific EQ tools, parametric or otherwise, as available in software like Adobe Audition, are great for really dialing in some specific corrections to specific songs, like applying a -4dB 60Hz Q5 notch in "Way Down Deep," so that the fix remains a permanent benefit in all future plays w/o having to dial in such a filter every time. The benefit also accrues to my iPod playing in my car system.

Only from the point of view that digital circuitry, which is what does the filtering, is intrinsically nasty stuff when operating at the same time as high quality analogue. Think putting the naked circuitry of a high quality preamp inside a PC, not a good move I'd suggest.
No need to put anything inside a PC. Nowadays there are many AV processors that have DSPs (running EQ and all manner of other stuff) that achieve excellent sonic performance.

Let me put a "whoa" on this....I understand completely that using an equalizer is not a panacea (as I said in the OP). I also appreciate the importance of room correction software et al, but that's not my point. All I wanted to find out is if using an equalizer would make a bad recording a little more palpable when using said equalizer. And if so, should we not reintroduce them into out systems? Now, if the equalizer route is a mistake (what were they good for then?), so be it.
By all means, use an EQ if it improves the result for you.
 
Last edited:

Johnny Vinyl

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
May 16, 2010
8,570
51
38
Calgary, AB
Roger - thanks for that explanation. And like others have said, I guess it is best to fix/save for future plays. For the record, I'm not really looking for an equalizer, it was just a question that I wanted to bring up for discussion. I learned something new today, and for that I'm very happy!
 

Phelonious Ponk

New Member
Jun 30, 2010
8,677
23
0
What I'm doing...very little of, mind you...is tone control, pure and simple. And yes it is the opposite of high fidelity and only chases a "pleasant sound." Which is why I only use it when the sound is particularly unpleasant.

Tim
 

About us

  • What’s Best Forum is THE forum for high end audio, product reviews, advice and sharing experiences on the best of everything else. This is THE place where audiophiles and audio companies discuss vintage, contemporary and new audio products, music servers, music streamers, computer audio, digital-to-analog converters, turntables, phono stages, cartridges, reel-to-reel tape machines, speakers, headphones and tube and solid-state amplification. Founded in 2010 What’s Best Forum invites intelligent and courteous people of all interests and backgrounds to describe and discuss the best of everything. From beginners to life-long hobbyists to industry professionals, we enjoy learning about new things and meeting new people, and participating in spirited debates.

Quick Navigation

User Menu

Steve Williams
Site Founder | Site Owner | Administrator
Ron Resnick
Site Co-Owner | Administrator
Julian (The Fixer)
Website Build | Marketing Managersing