Harry Belafonte At Carnegie Hall and Other Golden Age Records

karma · Feb 17, 2012

HI All,
This is a follow up on the ongoing thread called The Golden Age Of Records. It's related but not the same.

I need record collectors involved with this subject; you are the experts. I have a large record collection but I'm not a serious collector of collector quality material. I can't afford to be.

Since I had my nose to the Golden Age trail in the other thread, I decided to play my meager supply of Golden Age records today. This is what I found. First, I played my pristine copy of Harry Belafonte at Carnegie Hall (recorded April 20, 1959; LSO-6006) on RCA. As you know this is a fantastic recording. It brought tears to my eyes. It has not aged one iota over the years. Amazing!

Next, I brought out a Chesky reissue of the Rimsky-Korsakov Scheherazade by Fritz Reiner conducting the Chicago Symphony Orchestra. The Chesky number is RC4. No original recording date is given in the notes. I believe this was originally released on RCA. This is a poor mans Golden Age record.

Comparing the Belafonte and the Reiner recordings, I found the Reiner reissue somewhat lacking. Oh, to be sure it is a fine recording but not as good as the Belafonte.

So, here is my question. Have any of you compared the original Reiner/RCA recording to the Chesky reissue? How do they compare? How about other Chesky reissues?

I have no doubt the Chesky effort was serious. The production notes confirm this. So, was the original RCA first rate? Or was it less than that and the Chesky version accurate? Or did the recording deteriorate in the Chesky version. In question is a fine grain on the strings.

For your reference, my playback system is all ARC tube equipment and my cartridge is a Lyra Skala. My speakers are Martin Logan CLS IIA electrostatics in a good room.

Inquiring minds want to know.

Thanks, Sparky

TBG · Nov 13, 2014

Karma, coincidentally I was playing the later Harry Belafonte Returns to Carnegie Hall originally on RCA versus what looks to be a reissue by RCA. The two are not at all alike, so this must be a remastered album. I also compared the original Reprise Sinatra at the Sands versus the Mobile Fidelity reissue. It too sounds quite different from the original. I must say that often I prefer the originals over the reissues and often thought that this was attributable to the age of the master tapes and their losing high frequencies, but I now think it is remastering preferences.

I do have both versions of the Rimsky-Korsakov Scheherazade by Fritz Reiner recording, but cannot immediately find either. I don't remember thinking that the Chesky reissue sounded very different from the original. Generally, when I have the original I am disinclined to buy the reissue.

I should also say that the cd version also are quite different from the initial vinyl releases. I have long ago given up on tape versions, but I suspect they are closest to the performances.

Others would, no doubt, think we are crazy doing such comparisons.

RBFC · Nov 13, 2014

I found the Chesky reissue of Scheherazade to be very good, but didn't have the original to compare. I was not equally impressed with all the Chesky reissues, perhaps pressing number, etc. affected these as well.

Lee

astrotoy · Nov 13, 2014

When Chesky first did its reissues of the RCA Living Stereos, they did pick mostly TAS Superdisc titles, so the basic sonics were great. I think I have all the Chesky vinyl issues as well as all the original RCA shaded dogs from which they were issued. Since the shaded dogs are unreasonably priced and almost never in as pristine condition as the Chesky's, I would say that the Chesky's were a great bargain at the time and still are, if you can get them reasonably cheaply. Chesky did some reissues in both regular weight and 180g pressings. I got the original regular weight ones. I generally do like the shaded dogs better, but one exception is the Ravel Daphnis et Chloe with Munch and the BSO, LSC-1893 (I don't remember the Chesky number). I like the Chesky better - clearer sound than the more atmospheric RCA. Chesky also did a very fine reissue, a little later, of the famous LSC-1817 Offenbach Gaite Pariesienne, with Fiedler and the Boston Pops. Both the LSC-1817 and LSC-1893 are ultraexpensive in an original pressing in nm condition (a couple to 5 bills each).

Sometime after Chesky did its issues, Classic Records did their reissues. Like Chesky, they did a lot of the TAS Superdiscs, but unlike Chesky, they did facsimile covers and labels and a lot of different versions - different weight pressings, different vinyl compositions, many were issued in multirecord one sided 45 RPM pressings, and many of the 33's were tilted up in the high frequencies, compared to the originals.

One thing Chesky did in vinyl was to reissue some of the great Reader's Digest albums, like the wonderful Barbirolli Sibelius Symphony 2. Those are great finds and much better surfaces than the original RCA boxes which scavengers among you can find in Goodwill and other thrift shops. Those were engineered by Decca, almost all by Kenneth 'Wilkie' Wilkinson, considered by many (most?) as the best classical engineer ever. Chuck Gerhardt produced the albums, recorded in the Decca studios and other Decca locations like Kingsway Hall.

Larry

Lee · Feb 15, 2015

astrotoy said:
When Chesky first did its reissues of the RCA Living Stereos, they did pick mostly TAS Superdisc titles, so the basic sonics were great. I think I have all the Chesky vinyl issues as well as all the original RCA shaded dogs from which they were issued. Since the shaded dogs are unreasonably priced and almost never in as pristine condition as the Chesky's, I would say that the Chesky's were a great bargain at the time and still are, if you can get them reasonably cheaply. Chesky did some reissues in both regular weight and 180g pressings. I got the original regular weight ones. I generally do like the shaded dogs better, but one exception is the Ravel Daphnis et Chloe with Munch and the BSO, LSC-1893 (I don't remember the Chesky number). I like the Chesky better - clearer sound than the more atmospheric RCA. Chesky also did a very fine reissue, a little later, of the famous LSC-1817 Offenbach Gaite Pariesienne, with Fiedler and the Boston Pops. Both the LSC-1817 and LSC-1893 are ultraexpensive in an original pressing in nm condition (a couple to 5 bills each).

Sometime after Chesky did its issues, Classic Records did their reissues. Like Chesky, they did a lot of the TAS Superdiscs, but unlike Chesky, they did facsimile covers and labels and a lot of different versions - different weight pressings, different vinyl compositions, many were issued in multirecord one sided 45 RPM pressings, and many of the 33's were tilted up in the high frequencies, compared to the originals.

One thing Chesky did in vinyl was to reissue some of the great Reader's Digest albums, like the wonderful Barbirolli Sibelius Symphony 2. Those are great finds and much better surfaces than the original RCA boxes which scavengers among you can find in Goodwill and other thrift shops. Those were engineered by Decca, almost all by Kenneth 'Wilkie' Wilkinson, considered by many (most?) as the best classical engineer ever. Chuck Gerhardt produced the albums, recorded in the Decca studios and other Decca locations like Kingsway Hall.

Larry

The great Tim de Paravicini mastered a handful of Chesky LPs such as Power of the Orchestra which sounds amazing.

Ronm1 · Feb 15, 2015

TBG said:
Karma, coincidentally I was playing the later Harry Belafonte Returns to Carnegie Hall originally on RCA versus what looks to be a reissue by RCA. The two are not at all alike, so this must be a remastered album.

Others would, no doubt, think we are crazy doing such comparisons.

While I don't have multiple of Return I do have more than a half doz HB@CH in diff formats. All get a thumbs up except the SACD from yrs ago, disappointing. What I notice most is the mix that I'll describe as more stage like less hall vs doz seats from stage with a more concert hall vibe.

astrotoy · Feb 15, 2015

Ronm1 said:
While I don't have multiple of Return I do have more than a half doz HB@CH in diff formats. All get a thumbs up except the SACD from yrs ago, disappointing. What I notice most is the mix that I'll describe as more stage like less hall vs doz seats from stage with a more concert hall vibe.

In addition to the usual suspects (including two different releases of the 45RPM Classics Recordings reissue) I have a very fine sounding 7.5ips 4TR R2R copy, released, I believe, at the same time as the original vinyl. One of the best sounding RCA 4TR tapes I have.

Larry

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