I heard the Giya at RMAF and they sounded real nice. I never noticed a "jump" factor though.
What is it about the "jump factor" that only expensive speakers get close to "real"?
- Thread starter caesar
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I heard the Giya at RMAF and they sounded real nice. I never noticed a "jump" factor though.
Both Tom (Danley) and Mark (Seaton) have written some interesting stuff on what makes up jump. Wish I could remember which threads precisely. 
To me it's like Roger said, the ability to scare you silly The type of dynamics that can literally startle someone into jumping.
In my experience, it's mostly if not all in the midband. Tom and Mark hit on this on the discussions about how "speed" is erroneously associated with subwoofers. I don't have horns but have experienced some crazy jump from dynamic speakers. Frantz mentioned a bunch of them. One notable loudspeaker maker is Living Voice. Their small towers have lots of jump for little money, the new Naim Ovators too.
Ultimately I certainly agree that jump is system rather than just loudspeaker dependent. The recording itself has to have it, the amps have to have the rise time and power to get the loudspeakers going and the loudspeakers themselves have to be able to translate that. One thing dynamic speakers that have high jump factor seem to have in common are high sensitivity midrange drivers (or lots of little ones that add up to the same thing) that are lightly padded if padded at all.
The type of dynamics that can literally startle someone into jumping. In my experience, it's mostly if not all in the midband. Tom and Mark hit on this on the discussions about how "speed" is erroneously associated with subwoofers. I don't have horns but have experienced some crazy jump from dynamic speakers. Frantz mentioned a bunch of them. One notable loudspeaker maker is Living Voice. Their small towers have lots of jump for little money, the new Naim Ovators too.
Ultimately I certainly agree that jump is system rather than just loudspeaker dependent. The recording itself has to have it, the amps have to have the rise time and power to get the loudspeakers going and the loudspeakers themselves have to be able to translate that. One thing dynamic speakers that have high jump factor seem to have in common are high sensitivity midrange drivers (or lots of little ones that add up to the same thing) that are lightly padded if padded at all.
One way to technically pick it is to put a storage cro on the power amp supplies while driving the speakers. If the voltage is glitching all over the place, no jump; if it's rock solid on the "bitey" notes then you should have plenty of "jump" ...
Frank
Frank
To me it's when I stop spinning the album (or CD); then take my own guitar (or flute),
and start playing (or even set myself up into a recording session with a couple mikes). :b
That's how I am truly inspired from that music listening moment with a great jump factor.
Money's got nothing to do with it, but it can help too. What truly counts is the state of your soul.
...On that moment in time & space.
and start playing (or even set myself up into a recording session with a couple mikes). :b
That's how I am truly inspired from that music listening moment with a great jump factor.
Money's got nothing to do with it, but it can help too. What truly counts is the state of your soul.
...On that moment in time & space.
The trouble, Jack, is that when some people get technical -- pull out heavy duty measuring machinery -- they become obsessed with the mechanics of taking a reading: the numbers on the dial look very accurate, or an impressive looking graph is produced, and they feel the job is done. The fact that what they've measured is severely contaminated, and is completely irrelevant to finding out something worthwhile about the equipment, is ignored -- I've just produced a very impressive looking report, what's your problem!?"Technically", "Jump" and "Bitey" all in two sentences. I love it!
So unless you're standing back from what you're measuring, and thinking in a relaxed way, hanging "loose" about what's going on, there's every chance you'll achieve very little doing the exercise ...
Frank
I would hazard to guess that some of that ability has to do with plain old cubic inches/displacement and efficiency. Having mega watts is nice and all but you do not need lots of power to get jump factor. Any of the larger vintage Altec systems can slaughter almost anything out there for jump factor. They don't need that much power at all to do that. What they do have are large woofers a compression driver and high sensitivity. They are not without issues. Modern horns are much more linear and can also make you jump out of your skin. You also can't put a price tag on it. Big Money doesn't= JUMP
I agree the speed is not there but the impact sure is. I have a 4 sub set-up in my HT that can move quite a bit of air. When you physically feel the impact in your body on your clothes and in your chair it really adds to effect. If you don't know it's coming it can really rock you.
Rob
Yeah, the bass impact from multiple subwoofers plays certainly a big role in the overall
"jump factor". :b
"jump factor". :b
I call the bass the "Cover Factor". The mids make you jump and the bass makes you run for cover. LOL.
...And the Treble? ...The "Nude factor"?
...It uncovers all the details, including high distortions in the high range of the audio spectrum.
Uncovering, revealing, in the nude. Part of the 'jump factor' too I guess. :b
___________________
Very high-end and expensive loudspeakers, and amplified by powerful beasts
are certainly a good reason to jump.
But at the end, it's the music playing that does it.
And the jump becomes the celebration. :b
...It uncovers all the details, including high distortions in the high range of the audio spectrum.
Uncovering, revealing, in the nude. Part of the 'jump factor' too I guess. :b
___________________
Very high-end and expensive loudspeakers, and amplified by powerful beasts
are certainly a good reason to jump.
But at the end, it's the music playing that does it.
And the jump becomes the celebration. :b
The jump factor per the late great J Gordon Holt:
"Realism," "presence," and "aliveness" are three overworked terms which baffle many readers, and for good reason — they have no definitions, except in terms of "the real thing." And to someone who doesn't remember the sound of live, unamplified instruments or voices, [How can one forget? Aren't these sounds around all the time?] "the real thing" is an equally meaningless term. To one (like myself) whose reference is live sound, realism, presence, and aliveness (interchangeable terms) describe the feeling that I am listening to actual, in-the-flesh instruments rather than their reproduction. This feeling — and it is only that — is brought on by a certain combination of aural cues which my perceptions identify as characteristic of live music. But aliveness does not pertain exclusively to music reproduction; it includes the reproduction of such incidental sounds as page turnings, chair squeakings, and, during a quiet passage, the muted clearing of a performer's throat. The most apt description of aliveness that I have heard — attributed to Sheffield Records' Doug Sax — is "jump factor": Listening to music with only half your attention, you hear a noise from the speakers that sounds so much like it's in the room with you that you jump with surprise.
"Realism," "presence," and "aliveness" are three overworked terms which baffle many readers, and for good reason — they have no definitions, except in terms of "the real thing." And to someone who doesn't remember the sound of live, unamplified instruments or voices, [How can one forget? Aren't these sounds around all the time?] "the real thing" is an equally meaningless term. To one (like myself) whose reference is live sound, realism, presence, and aliveness (interchangeable terms) describe the feeling that I am listening to actual, in-the-flesh instruments rather than their reproduction. This feeling — and it is only that — is brought on by a certain combination of aural cues which my perceptions identify as characteristic of live music. But aliveness does not pertain exclusively to music reproduction; it includes the reproduction of such incidental sounds as page turnings, chair squeakings, and, during a quiet passage, the muted clearing of a performer's throat. The most apt description of aliveness that I have heard — attributed to Sheffield Records' Doug Sax — is "jump factor": Listening to music with only half your attention, you hear a noise from the speakers that sounds so much like it's in the room with you that you jump with surprise.
Good one Rob.
We hear a noise that seems to be coming from outside, and we 'tune in', we 'turn' into attention,
we 'jump up' suddenly, as if an intruder was watching us through the window.
Then we 'rewind' the album (or the CD) to finally discover that it was in the recording itself! :b
Yup, "jump factor", or "spooky", as in "aux aguets" (alert & insecure at the same time).
...Like, "Was there someone, something I heard, and that wasn't in the room with me?"
We hear a noise that seems to be coming from outside, and we 'tune in', we 'turn' into attention,
we 'jump up' suddenly, as if an intruder was watching us through the window.
Then we 'rewind' the album (or the CD) to finally discover that it was in the recording itself! :b
Yup, "jump factor", or "spooky", as in "aux aguets" (alert & insecure at the same time).
...Like, "Was there someone, something I heard, and that wasn't in the room with me?"
Seeing as my system is barely worth $5G I guess I won't be jumping anytime soon, if ever. Oh well!
I wouldn't assume that at all. If the "jump factor" is that sound that for a moment seems so real that it makes you look around for the sound in the room, not in the speakers, I've heard it from less than $5k systems many times.
Tim
I was being facetious actually, and only posted in response to Caesar's claim about the $50,000 speaker. I find that whole suggestion quite preposterous.
And yes Tim, I agree that the "jump factor" can certainly be experienced with systems of lesser monetary value. I have no doubt the vast majority of our members, irrespective of the gear they own, have experienced this phenomenon.
Hi
I apologize to Caesar in advance if that comes as a harsh criticism. TO me this is the thing we must abolutely avoid in High End Audio discussion. The implication is that one must spend a very serious amount of money to have a good system. It limits the discussion in a way that I find counterproductive and frankly snobish. My last post on the subject.
Frantz out!
I apologize to Caesar in advance if that comes as a harsh criticism. TO me this is the thing we must abolutely avoid in High End Audio discussion. The implication is that one must spend a very serious amount of money to have a good system. It limits the discussion in a way that I find counterproductive and frankly snobish. My last post on the subject.
Frantz out!
But I'd love to hear from people having such loudspeakers ($50,000 and +). :b
In that perspective, Caesar is absolutely in his right, and also down to earth, in asking his first original question.
I'm here to expand my horizons of knowledge in this great Audio hobby of ours, not to deter.
In that perspective, Caesar is absolutely in his right, and also down to earth, in asking his first original question.
I'm here to expand my horizons of knowledge in this great Audio hobby of ours, not to deter.
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