Ranges

KeithR

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May 7, 2010
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Alright guys, looking at ranges and it's been 8 years since I did so. I want to replace a Kitchenaid Superba which has served me well, but 2 of 4 burners are pretty worthless. It's convection as well, which I really don't use to be honest.

I have a condo, so only a 30"--maybe could squeeze a 36" if I take out a cabinet/counter end, but not sure I want to do that. My guess is whoever makes a great 30" has an equally good 36".

I require a range w/ oven and I run gas, of course. My Kitchenaid hood runs up the wall into the ceiling, and not sure if I would need to replace it as well for the better stoves.

KeithR
 

KeithR

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I like the French look as well, but unfortunately I have a modern house---won't work!

Blue Star and Thermador seem to come highly recommended. I've always liked the Wolf looks---but seems a bit higher than the others which isn't best for me.

KeithR
 

amirm

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Apr 2, 2010
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Blue Star gets rave reviews on heat performance but used to get horrible scores on reliability and customer service. We passed on it at the time. Go to Gardenweb for the latest gossip on them: http://ths.gardenweb.com/forums/appl/

We got a Wolf but am not happy with it. It has an inside and outside ring with the former to fill in the flames. Problem is that in medium settings it can't make up its mind if it should or should not light the outside ring and keeps popping. Also if we don't use the range for a while it lights with a big pop. Our Viking is superior in all of these cases and we wish we had bought that (we didn't because we have LP fuel at our vacation house and it puts out less BTUs relative to Wolf).

Thermador I think had an issue with simmer, i.e. not getting low enough from what I recall. You had to get a simmer plate for it. But my memory is hazy. Just pretend you are female :), hang around the gardenweb for a few weeks and you will get the lay of the land quickly there.

BTW, consumer reports just reviewed all the ovens. I don't go by their reviews in this area much but it is good to check it out. You can sign up online and read the reviews.
 

KeithR

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I'll be honest, Amir--I love the look of Wolf and always have, plus they apparently have the best service in the industry.

My problem is that it is 37" tall - some of the others are in the 35-36" range. As I've mentioned before, I'm a wheelchair dude these days so lower I feel would be better, all things equal.

It seems Gardenweb loves Blue Star and Capital Culinarian---with Wolf the best of the rest. I'm going to head out on President's Day weekend and get a look in the flesh at all of them.

I was also looking at GE Monogram---but GE reliability apparently sucks. And it really doesn't speak "high end" for the same $s.

The first thing I need to decide is open vs. seasled burner. That will make the debate easier.
 

RogerD

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I would stay away from Thermador, if their range has the extra low feature it is a nightmare and I had nothing but trouble. When I remodeled some time ago I used Gardenweb as a info resource,lot's of good info and opinion.

Also if your the cleaner....you want to think about what design is going to be less of a hassle.
 

RogerD

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Also you're looking at these semi pro ranges,remember that most can give plenty of high heat,but few are able to go very low. It might not matter but that's just a thought.
 

amirm

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The first thing I need to decide is open vs. seasled burner. That will make the debate easier.
That argument resemble transistor vs tube debates on audio :). My complete vote is for open. It makes the burners breath easy and what falls around the burner goes in the tray below. And at any rate, it is easier to clean since you can take out the pieces. OK, so it is not really "easy" to clean as once the stuff gets burned in good in the enamel, you can't clean it anymore. But same is true of sealed and at least in this case, you can easily remove and replace. We just put up with it. The enamel is black and we want people to know we use our cooktop :).
 

RogerD

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That argument resemble transistor vs tube debates on audio :). My complete vote is for open. It makes the burners breath easy and what falls around the burner goes in the tray below. And at any rate, it is easier to clean since you can take out the pieces. OK, so it is not really "easy" to clean as once the stuff gets burned in good in the enamel, you can't clean it anymore. But same is true of sealed and at least in this case, you can easily remove and replace. We just put up with it. The enamel is black and we want people to know we use our cooktop :).

I agree open is easier to clean.
 

lasercd

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My wife's hobby is baking. She used a Thermador 30" for years and it finally got long in the tooth. Last year we replaced it with a dual fuel Wolf. She's madly in love with it. I can only tell you that I think I've put on about 10 pounds since she got it.
 

KeithR

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Yes, everyone raves about Wolf ovens it appears---the stacked ones apparently are a no brainer to buy in the kitchen if you have room.

Amir- thanks for the simplification on open/sealed. Open seems preferable to me. Blue Star/Capital Culinarian/Viking are the only open burners out there. Viking has a pretty bad reliability factor---and lower 15k bTu burners compared to the others-- that said, you should get more flame with open 15ks than say a Thermador with 18k sealeds, yes?
 

RBFC

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Apr 20, 2010
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We have a Viking induction cooktop and it's incredible. The cooktop is so efficient, it boils cool water in under 1 minute. You can set your hand 1/4" from the pan while it boils and not be burned. All energy is transferred into the cooking vessel with no blow-by.

For in-wall range, we have a Miele 4884BP self-cleaning oven. Very happy with both.

http://www.vikingrange.com/consumer/products/product.jsp?id=prod8880163

http://www.mieleusa.com/usa/cooking...oking Products&fourthL=Ovens&fifthL=Products&

Lee
 

amirm

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Amir- thanks for the simplification on open/sealed. Open seems preferable to me. Blue Star/Capital Culinarian/Viking are the only open burners out there. Viking has a pretty bad reliability factor---and lower 15k bTu burners compared to the others-- that said, you should get more flame with open 15ks than say a Thermador with 18k sealeds, yes?
BTUs are BTUs, however they are achieved. Alas, I don't think there are proper industry standards here so these things could easily be a few BTUs off. The best test is the boiling test that people sometimes post on Gardenweb.

I have found that the only way to go noticeable beyond the nominal 15K BTU is to go with induction. We have the Wolf and commercial induction stovetop next to each other. The induction can be scary fast! When using a wok with it for example, I don't dare going beyond 50% power as the situation can easily get out of control! :) When putting in vegetables for example, it can create so much steam that you can't see the pan anymore!

That said, induction has its issues. For example, when using the wok, the sides of the wok will remain cold initially. If you try to cook with it, it will act very different than gas. I like having the choice of each but it requires 60 inches of surface and a fan/hood and even longer hood over them! :eek: :D
 

KeithR

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Capital has 23k bTU burners now! I would love to sear steaks on that kind of flame---then finish them off in the oven.
 

amirm

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That's a pretty nice upgrade. I could never figure out why they are so skimpy with this. I think it is fear of litigation from someone setting their kitchen on fire.
 

RogerD

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I use a cast iron wok with my induction. Years ago I had a commercial Wolf gas cooktop with 4 burners and a 2ft griddle in the middle. It was about 125,000 btu and I had to use a regulator to cut it down,used the pilot to simmer sauces. In those days no fire apparatus was required because most building departments had never seen one used in a residential setting. Those were the days.
 

KeithR

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So the Wolf indeed is the tallest of the bunch (37" and not adjustable), but clearly seems the best made/fit/finish. I didn't particularly care for the Therm at all in comparison.

Dacor made a nice, lower height range---but seems cheaper than the rest (and still retails for 3800).

So that leaves Viking---appears with the height adjustment they have and the open burners that you can still order---and 750 off right now, that is going to be the range of choice. Reliability is still my concern there...

That said, I'm off to see a Blue Star just in case-- i believe it's similar to Wolf in height so won't work.
 

RogerD

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So the Wolf indeed is the tallest of the bunch (37" and not adjustable), but clearly seems the best made/fit/finish. I didn't particularly care for the Therm at all in comparison.

Dacor made a nice, lower height range---but seems cheaper than the rest (and still retails for 3800).

So that leaves Viking---appears with the height adjustment they have and the open burners that you can still order---and 750 off right now, that is going to be the range of choice. Reliability is still my concern there...

That said, I'm off to see a Blue Star just in case-- i believe it's similar to Wolf in height so won't work.

Viking...hmm. Make sure your dealer is top notch! Standard counter height is 32 inches,so that is puzzling why the wolf is 5 inches higher.

Keep looking and doing your research,sometimes things work out after all,good luck.
 

lasercd

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Viking...hmm. Make sure your dealer is top notch! Standard counter height is 32 inches,so that is puzzling why the wolf is 5 inches higher.

Keep looking and doing your research,sometimes things work out after all,good luck.

Standard counter height is 36 inches. For the hell of it I just measured my Wolf range. Its 36 inches and the height sits flush with the countertop. We swapped out our old Thermador with the Wolf and there was no height adjustment necessary.
 

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