Linear-tracking Turntables!

Johnny Vinyl

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
May 16, 2010
8,570
51
38
Calgary, AB
It seems to me that these TT's provide the best tracing of a groove (not tracking as that's another issue) possible and I'm somewhat confused as to why they aren't more popular. I am no tech-guru (as you all well know), but on the surface this method seems to be a no-brainer.

Why aren't more companies producing such tables?
 

mep

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
9,481
17
0
Because the arms are “fussier” to set up and maintain than their pivoted brethren. Pivoted arms are almost the analog equivalent of digital’s “look ma, no hands” approach in comparison to linear tracking arms.
 

puroagave

Member Sponsor
Sep 29, 2011
1,345
45
970
if you're talking servo controlled linear tracking arms the Goldmund was the only true high-ender, the Rabco and myriad of mid-fi servo-controlled japanese arms wouldnt hold a candle to good pivoted arm. the vast majority of linear trackers are airbearing, the souther/clearaudio not withstanding.

some of the greats were the versa dynamics 1.0 & 2.0, rockport, airtangent, kuzma, walker, eminent technology, clearaudio and mapleknoll of those only the rockport, kuzma, walker, clearaudio and ET are still made. I've seen a few new entries like the bergmann, one-offs and obscure low-volume producers from all over.

Ive owned a VD 1.0 and two tables with the ET II arms in addition to serveral other pivoted arm/'table combinations The VD 1.0 was the best by a wide margin.
 

Johnny Vinyl

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
May 16, 2010
8,570
51
38
Calgary, AB
Because the arms are “fussier” to set up and maintain than their pivoted brethren. Pivoted arms are almost the analog equivalent of digital’s “look ma, no hands” approach in comparison to linear tracking arms.

Why are they harder to setup Mark? I've never owned one.
 

mep

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
9,481
17
0
I didn't want to hurt Tom's feelings and tell him he owned a mid-fi Japanese arm/table, but I guess you let the cat out of the bag.:)
 

mep

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
9,481
17
0
Why are they harder to setup Mark? I've never owned one.

I can speak of the ET-2 arm since I have owned one since the 1980s. The setup skills required (in my opinion) are significantly higher than a pivoted arm. The table has to be perfectly level and the arm has to be perfectly level, otherwise Gus won't get on the bus. You need to have the room outside of your room to install the air pump(s) or a compressor and the surge tank. You have to have an in-line air filter. You have to keep the bearing and spindle clean or again, Gus won't get on the bus.
 

Johnny Vinyl

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
May 16, 2010
8,570
51
38
Calgary, AB
I can speak of the ET-2 arm since I have owned one since the 1980s. The setup skills required (in my opinion) are significantly higher than a pivoted arm. The table has to be perfectly level and the arm has to be perfectly level, otherwise Gus won't get on the bus. You need to have the room outside of your room to install the air pump(s) or a compressor and the surge tank. You have to have an in-line air filter. You have to keep the bearing and spindle clean or again, Gus won't get on the bus.

Ok. Forgive my ignorance, but can't a Linear Tracker be made without an air-supply? I forget now who it was, but someone bought a Mitsu linear and I didn't see any air supply.
 

mep

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
9,481
17
0
Sure, any non-air bearing linear tracking arm fits that bill. I just wouldn't own one though.
 

Mike Lavigne

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 25, 2010
12,468
11,363
4,410
It seems to me that these TT's provide the best tracing of a groove (not tracking as that's another issue) possible and I'm somewhat confused as to why they aren't more popular. I am no tech-guru (as you all well know), but on the surface this method seems to be a no-brainer.

Why aren't more companies producing such tables?

i owned the Rockport Sirius III for 8 years; it's generally considered the ultimate implimentation of a linear tracking turntable.

over time i had a number of tt's and arms sitting next to the Rockport to compare; and eventually it became clear that the linear tracking arm was a limitation when faced with the very very best pivoted arm. up to that point, the Rockport and it's linear tracker repelled all comers in an overall sense.

and the Rockport was a very expensive tt and arm to produce, and every part of it was engineered and built to the nth degree.

the question could be posed; if enough resorces were committed could a linear tracking arm surpass the best pivoted arm? my SWAG would be no; that the physics involved ultimately give an arm completely free to wiggle an advantage in ultimate resolution......and any linear tracker has limitations in getting leverage for ultimate bass performance to some degree by whatever arm-shaft interface is used.

all that said, linear trackers do bring certain wonderful characterisitics to the presentation in terms of scale, image size and stability, which only the very best pivoted arms can achieve.

the bottom line is that there are lots of people trying to improve pivoted arms so things have moved forward, whereas almost no one is throwing money and time at making better linear trackers.

now; speaking about vintage linear trackers we have a multitude of issues to throw out. chief among them is that any mechanical linear tracker will crab accross the record however you slice it. it does take quite a bit of refinement just to deal with smooth tracking along the arm shaft. whether it's an air bearing or not. then you have different approaches to air bearings and their trade-offs.

lots of variables.

personally i would love for more efforts to happen regarding linear trackers. who knows what might be possible?
 

mep

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
9,481
17
0
Back to the specs eh Tom? As long as you have a spec sheet telling you how good something sounds, you take it to the audiophile bank? And does the last part of your sentence mean that the specs/performance of your arm/table exceed the quality of LPs?
 

MylesBAstor

Well-Known Member
Apr 20, 2010
11,236
81
1,725
New York City
It seems to me that these TT's provide the best tracing of a groove (not tracking as that's another issue) possible and I'm somewhat confused as to why they aren't more popular. I am no tech-guru (as you all well know), but on the surface this method seems to be a no-brainer.

Why aren't more companies producing such tables?

Because theory is one thing and implementation is another :)

Both pivoted and linear arms have their plusses and minuses. One of the biggest issues with air bearing arms is pump noise, esp. if you live in an apt.

As Mike L. mentioned, there's a lot of great arms out there like the Durand, Kuzma, Graham, Triplanar, etc. :)
 

JackD201

WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
12,308
1,425
1,820
Manila, Philippines
Sure, any non-air bearing linear tracking arm fits that bill. I just wouldn't own one though.

I wouldn't touch a souther type with a 10 foot pole.
 

Johnny Vinyl

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
May 16, 2010
8,570
51
38
Calgary, AB
Because theory is one thing and implementation is another :)

Both pivoted and linear arms have their plusses and minuses. One of the biggest issues with air bearing arms is pump noise, esp. if you live in an apt.

As Mike L. mentioned, there's a lot of great arms out there like the Durand, Kuzma, Graham, Triplanar, etc. :)

I recognize their are +/- situations, but on the surface it seem a linear arm comes with less problems. I wouldn't think there is much (if any) inner groove distortion...and isn't that a major drawback of pivoted arms?
 

MylesBAstor

Well-Known Member
Apr 20, 2010
11,236
81
1,725
New York City
I recognize their are +/- situations, but on the surface it seem a linear arm comes with less problems. I wouldn't think there is much (if any) inner groove distortion...and isn't that a major drawback of pivoted arms?

I think the differences in inner groove distortion between pivoted and linear tracking arms is minimized when one goes to a 12 inch arm OTOH, the top pivoted arms tend to have better bass than linear arms and linear arms tend to resolve more space than pivoted. And while theoretically linear arms should be superior, also remember that they must maintain tangency to the record across the grooves. Any slop in the bearing whether it be the Goldmund mechanical tracking arm or an air bearing arm will cause problems.

And of course, there's the issue of energy transfer in air bearing arms because there's no contact between the actual bearing and arm (on average, the best machining is 1/10000 of an inch over the surface of the bearing. So where does that energy created by the tracing of the groove go?

And there's also issues with horizontal vs. vertical moving mass of the arms.
 

Johnny Vinyl

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
May 16, 2010
8,570
51
38
Calgary, AB
I think the differences in inner groove distortion between pivoted and linear tracking arms is minimized when one goes to a 12 inch arm OTOH, the top pivoted arms tend to have better bass than linear arms and linear arms tend to resolve more space than pivoted. And while theoretically linear arms should be superior, also remember that they must maintain tangency to the record across the grooves. Any slop in the bearing whether it be the Goldmund mechanical tracking arm or an air bearing arm will cause problems.

And of course, there's the issue of energy transfer in air bearing arms because there's no contact between the actual bearing and arm (on average, the best machining is 1/10000 of an inch over the surface of the bearing. So where does that energy created by the tracing of the groove go?

And there's also issues with horizontal vs. vertical moving mass of the arms.

Explain that part to me Myles. I would think the strength of linear trackers would be in the horizontal plane with less tracking error ( if weighted correctly) , and if so...where do the veritcal errors come into play?
 

cjfrbw

Well-Known Member
Apr 20, 2010
3,323
1,314
1,730
Pleasanton, CA
Given the "error envelope" of vinyl playback and cartridges, I don't think that aside from THEORY rather than APPLICATION, that linear trackers provide enough advantages in exchange for the increased pain in the ass factor. Vinyl is already a pain in the ass, and linear trackers don't provide significant payoff for increasing that factor.

Most linear trackers are expensive to build, and so they automatically tend to fall into the realm of higher quality playback arms. Pivoted arms can be cheaply made and constructed, so they tend to be all over the map in terms of quality.

I think that differences in sound quality between high quality linear trackers and high quality pivoted arms has nothing to do with error treatment, but just implementation i.e. way effective mass is handled, wiring, vibration draining, bearing quality etc., the same as the differences heard among high quality pivoted arms.

Linear trackers also have a reputation for being very hard on stylus and some are considered stylus breakers.
 

MylesBAstor

Well-Known Member
Apr 20, 2010
11,236
81
1,725
New York City
Given the "error envelope" of vinyl playback and cartridges, I don't think that aside from THEORY rather than APPLICATION, that linear trackers provide enough advantages in exchange for the increased pain in the ass factor. Vinyl is already a pain in the ass, and linear trackers don't provide significant payoff for increasing that factor.

Most linear trackers are expensive to build, and so they automatically tend to fall into the realm of higher quality playback arms. Pivoted arms can be cheaply made and constructed, so they tend to be all over the map in terms of quality.

I think that differences in sound quality between high quality linear trackers and high quality pivoted arms has nothing to do with error treatment, but just implementation i.e. way effective mass is handled, wiring, vibration draining, bearing quality etc., the same as the differences heard among high quality pivoted arms.

Linear trackers also have a reputation for being very hard on stylus and some are considered stylus breakers.

The only way have seen a linear bearing arm become a stylus breaker is if the arm supply is suddently cut off. If you use most methods with a surge tank or compressor, that shouldn't happen
 

MylesBAstor

Well-Known Member
Apr 20, 2010
11,236
81
1,725
New York City

microstrip

VIP/Donor
May 30, 2010
20,806
4,698
2,790
Portugal
As the bearing of a linear tracking tonearm must be perfectly parallel to the platter and the orthogonal arm must always be in a tangential position, mounting and setting a linear tonearm is more critical that a pivot. If you make a small position error with pivot arm you will not get the maximum of the system - if you do the same with a linear tracking arm it will start skipping grooves.

But you you get a turntable system such as the Forsell or the Bergmann, that comes with an integral mounted air bearing, you will skip all the troublesome phases, and will find that the setup of a linear arm is much easier, more exact and faster than that of a pivot tonearm.

As someone already said it you have an air bearing tonearm the pressure meter (that costs less than usd 5) is really mandatory. You do not need a precision one, but you will feel much better knowing there is enough pressure on the system - and it is also an useful indicator that you forgot to switch off the pump after the listening session. :)


.
 

About us

  • What’s Best Forum is THE forum for high end audio, product reviews, advice and sharing experiences on the best of everything else. This is THE place where audiophiles and audio companies discuss vintage, contemporary and new audio products, music servers, music streamers, computer audio, digital-to-analog converters, turntables, phono stages, cartridges, reel-to-reel tape machines, speakers, headphones and tube and solid-state amplification. Founded in 2010 What’s Best Forum invites intelligent and courteous people of all interests and backgrounds to describe and discuss the best of everything. From beginners to life-long hobbyists to industry professionals, we enjoy learning about new things and meeting new people, and participating in spirited debates.

Quick Navigation

User Menu

Steve Williams
Site Founder | Site Owner | Administrator
Ron Resnick
Site Co-Owner | Administrator
Julian (The Fixer)
Website Build | Marketing Managersing