Art Ludwig's Sound Page

JackD201 · Jan 26, 2012

I caught an episode of this years American Idol auditions. They were using Autotune. Pathetic. What's even more pathetic is that they were using it on people that didn't really need it. Gross.

As someone certified for Protools, I must defend it by saying as far as editing goes, it's a godsend (actually Soundscape was even easier but much less flexible). I also must admit that sound wise. Yech.

Phelonious Ponk · Jan 27, 2012

JackD201 said:
I caught an episode of this years American Idol auditions. They were using Autotune. Pathetic. What's even more pathetic is that they were using it on people that didn't really need it. Gross.

As someone certified for Protools, I must defend it by saying as far as editing goes, it's a godsend (actually Soundscape was even easier but much less flexible). I also must admit that sound wise. Yech.

I think autotune is used more often as an effect than as a correcting mechanism. Can't say I like it myself, but it will pass, as all fads do.

Tim

JackD201 · Jan 27, 2012

Let's hope so. I'm still miffed that it was used for a singing contest where the viewer as judge should hear what the singer can really do. Boy that show jumped the shark a long time ago.

MylesBAstor · Jan 27, 2012

Phelonious Ponk said:
I think autotune is used more often as an effect than as a correcting mechanism. Can't say I like it myself, but it will pass, as all fads do.

Tim

As I said, all the time. (for those who don't get it, that means there is no talent left and
Autotune is used on more artists than one cares to think about.)

Steve Williams · Jan 27, 2012

what is autotune

how does it adjust pitch and volume

Steve Williams · Jan 27, 2012

How do you know that autotune is being used?

Soundproof · Jan 27, 2012

Steve Williams said:
How do you know that autotune is being used?

A glassyness to the singing - the singer is meowing instead of working the phrasing. Autotune does miracles for the voiceless, and is used on continuous loop for some artists.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20-ydkc094E

Playback is their friend:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7z06NISh-NY

"Singing" has become flash, superficial acting - and some artists don't need to rely on their great skills with their vocal chords.

JackD201 · Jan 27, 2012

As an effect, it's the thing that makes singers sound like they're yodeling. It's most heavily abused by R&B artists and producers. Think Chris Brown.

FrantzM · Jan 27, 2012

Britney Spears anyone ?

JackD201 · Jan 27, 2012

I'd take the 1997 to 1999 version. Yeah. LOL.

bblue · Jan 27, 2012

Autotune, Melodyne and several other pitch and vocal manipulation plug-ins can be used for artistic effects -- and overused too, as we know.

However, there is no characteristic giveaway that such a program is being used at all, when it is used correctly. In the right hands these types of programs can correct phrasing, word timing, pitching, changing the tune sung (good for harmony parts, etc), and many other types of corrections with no audible side effects at all. There is no 'autotune sound' when it's not being used in excess for artistic reasons. They can even be used live as a support for minor pitch waverings, but usually not for not being able to sing at all, or missing whole notes, etc.

Additionally, they can be used on guitars, basses, even chorded guitar parts (Melodyne) to fix an individual note in a chord after tracks are in the box. Other instruments as well.

Just because a vocal has a weird sound to it doesn't mean it has been auto-tuned.

--Bill

Soundproof · Jan 27, 2012

bblue said:
Autotune, Melodyne and several other pitch and vocal manipulation plug-ins can be used for artistic effects -- and overused too, as we know.

However, there is no characteristic giveaway that such a program is being used at all, when it is used correctly. In the right hands these types of programs can correct phrasing, word timing, pitching, changing the tune sung (good for harmony parts, etc), and many other types of corrections with no audible side effects at all. There is no 'autotune sound' when it's not being used in excess for artistic reasons. They can even be used live as a support for minor pitch waverings, but usually not for not being able to sing at all, or missing whole notes, etc.

Additionally, they can be used on guitars, basses, even chorded guitar parts (Melodyne) to fix an individual note in a chord after tracks are in the box. Other instruments as well.

Just because a vocal has a weird sound to it doesn't mean it has been auto-tuned.

--Bill

Certainly, but it's often like Photoshop in advertising and promotion, people don't know when to stand back and leave well enough alone, and keep massaging until reality goes out the window. Fortunately reserved to categories of music I rarely bother with, most likely because I can't stand the absence of recognizable instruments, human rhythm (instead getting "perfect" drum-machine tracks), believable reverb, and credible performances by a voice, not fed through a machine.

When used for minor corrections, sure - when used to wallpaper the sound, not so sure. Gnarls Barkley used Melodyne on Crazy, and that made it horrible to listen to, IMHO, but it did become a hit. Maybe people don't care, or know to care.

bblue · Jan 27, 2012

Soundproof said:
When used for minor corrections, sure - when used to wallpaper the sound, not so sure. Gnarls Barkley used Melodyne on Crazy, and that made it horrible to listen to, IMHO, but it did become a hit. Maybe people don't care, or know to care.

How are you aware of his use of Melodyne? And what was the intended purpose?

If it was used it wasn't used very effectively, as I hear many many places where he's still over or under in pitch. If you're talking about the chorus's, that just sounds like doubling, a slight (few msec) delay, and a little LF rolloff. And he's over/under there too!

--Bill

Bruce B · Jan 27, 2012

MylesBAstor said:
Instead of trying to emulate tape machines, why don't the idiots just use tape machines? BTW, the main reason digital won out in the studio was so these pro idiots can justify their existence, eg. they can be techno geeks with Pro Tools and ruin everything now. Before, there was only so much they could to ruin recordings.
.

O'kay..... where to start?
They don't use tape machines because it costs money. Studios budgets are so low now they're giving away time. So many studio have gone under because they couldn't even pay rent or the electricity to keep the lights on.

Steve Williams said:
How do you know that autotune is being used?

Autotune is a brand name of pitch correction software by Antares. I actually use a pitch correction software by Celemony called Melodyne. These tools used correctly, can be indistinguishable. I bet none of you can tell me which one of FIM's discs that we did used pitch correction.

I think the objective of Pro-audio and Audiophiles are exactly the same. To convey the emotion of music that the artist intended.

The worst thing that could have happened in the last 10 years was Pro Tools dumbing down their software and making it available for a couple hundred bucks. It used to be where having a "Pro Tools" studio meant that tens of thousands of dollars were invested. Anyone investing this kind of green meant they were serious and took pride in their work. Same thing with mastering studios. Anyone can put out a shingle now and call themselves a "mastering studio". The most important thing (besides the engineers ears) in a mastering studio is the room and monitoring chain. There are hundreds of websites that advertize mastering but don't show pictures of the room. People don't want to take time and learn the craft. The better engineers have been in the trenches for decades. Tell that to someone that is buying new "Pro Tools" software at Guitar Center. You see all the time on mastering and mixing forums, questions like "I've got a crack version of Waves plugins. What preset do I use on some metal emo music I just recorded".

Steve Williams · Jan 27, 2012

Amazing Bruce

Sad but true

Steve Williams · Jan 27, 2012

Bruce I have most every one of Winston's albums so I would love to know (I have a guess if it is a female singer)

mep · Jan 28, 2012

tomelex said:
My guess is that digital recording will trounce analog warmth in a binaural set-up.

Tom

You and that binaural....

It's dead man, it's dead.

Phelonious Ponk · Jan 29, 2012

mep said:
You and that binaural....

It's dead man, it's dead.

It's not dead, Mark, it's just a tiny little niche. Always has been, always will be. Has there ever been a viable commercial recording made, and marketed in binaural? I don't think so. That doesn't make it wrong. It just makes it a very small, rather obsessive sub hobby within an already small, rather obsessive hobby. If you're listening to binaural, you're listening to the medium first, the music second, because there's just not enough software out there to make it a viable medium for collecting and listening to music. To put it plainly, the hobby is the medium, not the art.

Of course I feel exactly the same way about R2R at this point in time. YMMV.

Tim

mep · Jan 29, 2012

Phelonious Ponk said:
It's not dead, Mark, it's just a tiny little niche. Always has been, always will be. Has there ever been a viable commercial recording made, and marketed in binaural? I don't think so. That doesn't make it wrong. It just makes it a very small, rather obsessive sub hobby within an already small, rather obsessive hobby. If you're listening to binaural, you're listening to the medium first, the music second, because there's just not enough software out there to make it a viable medium for collecting and listening to music. To put it plainly, the hobby is the medium, not the art.

Of course I feel exactly the same way about R2R at this point in time. YMMV.

Tim

R2R looks mainstream compared to binaural. R2R is everywhere at the audio shows and for a number of reasons. You can’t show off your stereo system with binaural recordings because it’s a solo gig, you and a pair of cans.

How many people on this forum listen to R2R vice binaural recordings? Why doesn’t someone start up a binaural thread so we can count how many tumbleweeds are blowing through it?

Phelonious Ponk · Jan 29, 2012

mep said:
R2R looks mainstream compared to binaural. R2R is everywhere at the audio shows and for a number of reasons. You can’t show off your stereo system with binaural recordings because it’s a solo gig, you and a pair of cans.

How many people on this forum listen to R2R vice binaural recordings? Why doesn’t someone start up a binaural thread so we can count how many tumbleweeds are blowing through it?

Reel to reel is a tiny subset of the tiny subset of people who love music known as audiophiles. 15ips 1/4" tape always was, though it used to be a much larger tiny subset of a tiny subset. We're midgets arguing over who has the longest index fingers, mark.

Tim

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