LED Light Bulbs

Dimfer

Member Sponsor
May 8, 2010
621
181
1,605
Canada
Hi folks,

we're thinking of replacing all of our household light bulbs (almost all incandescent) with the new LED bulbs. The main purpose is to be more green minded, but have to admit that I don't particularly enjoy going up a 12' ladder to replace old and busted bulbs in our mostly 14' high ceiling. I also hate the fact that most bulbs don't put out as much light anymore after a year or so. We opted to go with mostly track lights with incandescent bulbs when we built our house 5 years ago thinking back then that it will eventually be replaced with LED bulbs. I am not a big fan of compact fluorescent.

Many of our fixtures are track lights with four 60 watt bulbs, which can now be replaced by an LED equivalent consuming only 10 watts. And yes, they are rated for 35,000 to 45,000 hrs instead of the usual 2,000 hrs... now I have to go up after every 15 yrs.


the main drawback for me now is cost, as the one I am considering to get (pictured below) still sell for $25.99 per bulb at local home depot, and I will be replacing 50 bulbs.



Has the LED lighting technology matured enough and worth pursuing already?

anybody on board done this or knowledgeable on this?

what's the best candidate/source?

We replaced most of the mercury vapor and T12 lights in our 30,000 sq. ft. shop with T5 two years ago and we're quite pleased with the result. The T5's are rated at 15,000 hours or more, and in my observation has not shown any reduced output. We will also be investigating LED for commercial lighting as my boss own 15 bigger commercial buildings and thinking of doing a bulk buy.
 

Steve Williams

Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
Hi folks,

we're thinking of replacing all of our household light bulbs (almost all incandescent) with the new LED bulbs. The main purpose is to be more green minded, but have to admit that I don't particularly enjoy going up a 12' ladder to replace old and busted bulbs in our mostly 14' high ceiling. I also hate the fact that most bulbs don't put out as much light anymore after a year or so. We opted to go with mostly track lights with incandescent bulbs when we built our house 5 years ago thinking back then that it will eventually be replaced with LED bulbs. I am not a big fan of compact fluorescent.

Many of our fixtures are track lights with four 60 watt bulbs, which can now be replaced by an LED equivalent consuming only 10 watts. And yes, they are rated for 35,000 to 45,000 hrs instead of the usual 2,000 hrs... now I have to go up after every 15 yrs.


the main drawback for me now is cost, as the one I am considering to get (pictured below) still sell for $25.99 per bulb at local home depot, and I will be replacing 50 bulbs.



Has the LED lighting technology matured enough and worth pursuing already?

anybody on board done this or knowledgeable on this?

what's the best candidate/source?

We replaced most of the mercury vapor and T12 lights in our 30,000 sq. ft. shop with T5 two years ago and we're quite pleased with the result. The T5's are rated at 15,000 hours or more, and in my observation has not shown any reduced output. We will also be investigating LED for commercial lighting as my boss own 15 bigger commercial buildings and thinking of doing a bulk buy.

I bet CFL are a whole lot less than LED's
 

Simon Templar

Well-Known Member
Jan 19, 2012
15
10
910
Infinite Rider on The Big Dogma
I have recently replace all the incandescent bulbs in my listening room with LED equivalents. I had been using GE 'Reveal' bulbs as I much prefer the colour-corrected light they emit. However, the Reveal's have a terribly short lifespan....I was replacing them usually about once a month. So we will see how the LED bulbs fare.

The colour balance of the LED bulbs is a bit too white for my tastes. You can get 'corrected' LEDs, but those are too yellow.

I had a similar problem with the bulbs in the ceiling fixture in my kitchen. Normal 60w incandescent bulbs were dying frequently and I was getting tired of setting up a ladder and removing/washing the globe and etc. So, I've replaced them with the Compact Fluorescent bulbs. So far...not a big fan of those. They require a 'warm-up' period if you turn them on cold. Not a big deal...just terribly annoying.


.....sT
 

rblnr

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
May 3, 2010
2,151
291
1,170
NYC/NJ
I'm a fan of LEDs. The color is better than CFLs, they startup immediately and they're mercury-free. Main issue is cost obviously -- I don't plan on moving for awhile so I'm willing to absorb it from that standpoint, and very much don't miss the waste of turning over incandescent bulbs. They should get better and cheaper as time passes, though I think manufacturers are wary of something too cheap that lasts basically forever. Not a great business model.
 

DonH50

Member Sponsor & WBF Technical Expert
Jun 22, 2010
3,947
306
1,670
Monument, CO
There have been a lot of articles in the engineer trade rags about LED light bulb replacements. The failure rate is still a bit high, though mostly due to soldering issues rather than the LEDs themselves. Cheaper models suffer from very poor LED quality control, meaning variable light spectra, lumens, and lifetime. Getting the color balance right is still a bit tricky, and the materials are costly so they are likely to stay expensive. However, the good ones should far outlast CFLs. I have gone through quite a few inexpensive (Wal-Mart bought) CFLs that have lasted only a year or two, not much longer than conventional, though some are still going after 3+ years. My wife hates (make that HATES) the light color from the cheap CFLs, and I haven't tried many of the better ones because they are costly and even with better color start-up time and reliability are issues. The coating wears out inside the CFLs, and the starter circuit is a major failure point for lights frequently turned on and off.

I seem to recall an article from late last year saying LEDs were on the brink of taking off, with lower costs and greater output, but a materials supply issue tripped them up. Time will tell...
 

microstrip

VIP/Donor
May 30, 2010
20,806
4,698
2,790
Portugal
Although the good old incandescent lamp will be soon banned from our houses, there is still no good replacement for it. I also hate CFLs - they ruin the aspect of any painting or beautiful face. Those with best spectra are usually more expensive and suffer from a slow start-up time, up to two minutes. The LEDs lamps I have tried are even worst - if I was nor warned I would run to see the doctor when I see my face in a mirror fitted with LED lamps. Currently I have several acceptable CFLs in my office, with some compensating focus lamps pointing to the paintings hanging on the wall - I think my reserve stock of incandescent reflector lamps is larger that that of tubes for my amplifiers.

One nasty fact of current alternative lamps is the lack of standardization on spectra. If you have a large group of lamps bought sometime ago, and one of them gets faulty, it is almost impossible to get one with similar light quality - your nice chandelier will soon look like a Christmas tree if do not get a replacement stock at the time of acquisition . At less lamps ruled by the Stefan–Boltzmann law were almost universal!
 

rblnr

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
May 3, 2010
2,151
291
1,170
NYC/NJ
The color of LEDs is getting better all the time. We use them in film all the time, have even done some fashion stuff with them where color and the play on flesh tone is obviously hyper-critical. I have on of the Philips bulbs pictured above, and some PAR 38 replacements from Home Depots house brand -- the color is clean, especially vs. CFLs for which even the best designed for home use are lousy IMO. Have maybe six or so in our house now, some in place over a year, no failures yet anyway. This was not my experience w/CFLs.
 

garylkoh

WBF Technical Expert (Speakers & Audio Equipment)
Sep 6, 2010
5,599
225
1,190
Seattle, WA
www.genesisloudspeakers.com
I hate CFL's too. Too many in the home, and everybody looks sick. The least "sick-looking" I've manage to find has been the GE Reveal Hybrid Halogen. Not as efficient and cheap as conventional CFL's but at least the color is a little more pleasant and the start-up time seems a bit shorter.

 

microstrip

VIP/Donor
May 30, 2010
20,806
4,698
2,790
Portugal
The problem with LED is the color temperature.
The first generation had 7000 K, that’s very hard white indeed.
Today you can get "normal" values like 300-3500 K

Unhappily the color temperature of sources that are not an incandescent filament (and do not behave like a black body) is a misleading non exact notion. See for example the typical spectra of the so called warm or cold led light sources and compare it with the spectra of an incandescent lamp.
 

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WDB

Member
Feb 15, 2012
32
0
6
Hi folks,

we're thinking of replacing all of our household light bulbs (almost all incandescent) with the new LED bulbs. The main purpose is to be more green minded, but have to admit that I don't particularly enjoy going up a 12' ladder to replace old and busted bulbs in our mostly 14' high ceiling. I also hate the fact that most bulbs don't put out as much light anymore after a year or so. We opted to go with mostly track lights with incandescent bulbs when we built our house 5 years ago thinking back then that it will eventually be replaced with LED bulbs. I am not a big fan of compact fluorescent.

Many of our fixtures are track lights with four 60 watt bulbs, which can now be replaced by an LED equivalent consuming only 10 watts. And yes, they are rated for 35,000 to 45,000 hrs instead of the usual 2,000 hrs... now I have to go up after every 15 yrs.


the main drawback for me now is cost, as the one I am considering to get (pictured below) still sell for $25.99 per bulb at local home depot, and I will be replacing 50 bulbs.



Has the LED lighting technology matured enough and worth pursuing already?

anybody on board done this or knowledgeable on this?

what's the best candidate/source?

We replaced most of the mercury vapor and T12 lights in our 30,000 sq. ft. shop with T5 two years ago and we're quite pleased with the result. The T5's are rated at 15,000 hours or more, and in my observation has not shown any reduced output. We will also be investigating LED for commercial lighting as my boss own 15 bigger commercial buildings and thinking of doing a bulk buy.

I have quite a few of the Philips 60 watt equivalent LED bulbs that I have been using for about a year now, so far no failures. I bought some of the EcoSmart 13 watt A19 bulbs that I like better than the Philips bulbs but I have not been using them as long. This is the EcoSmart bulb I bought, model # ECS A19 V2 WW 120, they come in both 3000K and 5000K(Daylight) versions.
I hope mine last longer than the CFLs I have tried.
 

rblnr

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
May 3, 2010
2,151
291
1,170
NYC/NJ
Unhappily the color temperature of sources that are not an incandescent filament (and do not behave like a black body) is a misleading non exact notion. See for example the typical spectra of the so called warm or cold led light sources and compare it with the spectra of an incandescent lamp.


Pretty sure those graphs are for flourescents, not LEDs. Cool white and warm white are not terms typrically used to describe LEDs, and in any case, the LEDs operate in a much more narrow spectra. Good LEDs are capable of very clean, ie narrow, color output.
 

JackD201

WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
12,308
1,425
1,820
Manila, Philippines
How nice is this. A vacuum tube vs solid state device discussion with no fighting. LOL.
 

rockitman

Member Sponsor
Sep 20, 2011
7,097
412
1,210
Northern NY
Hey... works for me as long as incandescent's don't die. I like dimming and warm light....we should have a choice.... not liberal green mandates.
 

WDB

Member
Feb 15, 2012
32
0
6
I see the Philips L Prize winning bulb is now available for sale at Bulbs.com, it's quite a bit more expensive than the Endura LED A19 60w equivalent bulb Philips sells. I can get the Older bulbs for $24.95 and the L prize bulb is $59.99 for now. The new L prize bulb is 940 lumens vs. older Endura LED at 800 lumens and L prize bulb uses 10 watts vs. 12.5 watts for the older design Endura LED bulb.
 

treitz3

Super Moderator
Staff member
Dec 25, 2011
5,459
961
1,290
The tube lair in beautiful Rock Hill, SC
How nice is this. A vacuum tube vs solid state device discussion with no fighting. LOL.

That's just too funny, Jack! LOL

If any of you are still into LED lighting, I have found a light bulb to replace the incandescent that is LED, less than 11 watts (as previously mentioned), lights up to a perceived full lumen immediately, looks like an incandescent and has the same characteristics as the tried and true incandescent. About $7-8 per bulb now. The Cree "4-way" LED bulb 60w equivalent is what I am talking about.

http://creebulb.com/products/standard-a-type/the-new-60-watt-replacement-soft-white-led-bulb

The failure rate is still IMO somewhat high. I had to return 2 bulbs within the first two weeks because of failure. One wasn't even soldered at all and the other worked for about a week or so and then just quit. The rest are going fine and I have (so far) about 45 or so of them going. Disclosure; I am not affiliated. Do NOT get "Daylight" or "Cool White" unless you like prisons and government institution buildings. I purchased "soft white", which was perfect for both the floodlights outside, the porch and all interior lighting. It's simply pleasing to the eye, no matter the time of day or night.

We got about half of the bulbs we needed to see if they worked out. So far, so good within the trial period of 3 months so far. In all aspects, to me, they act and react just like the old time incandescent we have always used for decades on end. These are the only bulbs I personally offer the "thumbs up" nod for performance and options to replace the incandescent.

On our front porch/front yard lighting, we went from (I don't feel like adding it all up again) 800 some-odd watts to light it all up to 20 watts more than a single 60w incandescent bulb that would barely light the front porch. Since the conversion, 80 watts light up the driveway, front porch and the front yard. What's funny is that after we replaced everything, even though we are using considerably less watts? It's brighter.

Looking very forward to having to not replace any of them for some time.

Tom
 

amirm

Banned
Apr 2, 2010
15,813
37
0
Seattle, WA
Our local utility has a $5 rebate on LED bulbs so I stocked up on a bunch of the 60 watt equiv. Cree bulbs. They have this soft coating on them which beside providing diffusion, has another major value: they don't shatter when they break! At $5 net cost, they are reasonable enough that I replaced a bunch of them around our house. Outside they generate far less heat and hence attract a lot less bugs to boot. Agree 100% with Tom that you only want the 2,700 Kelvin ones. All the rest are just too white.

One nice thing to take advantage of is upsizing. A lot of fixtures have a limit of 65 to 74 watts. Since LED bulbs run so cool, you can go up to 100+ equiv. watts and still run cooler. This allowed us to have much more light outside than existing fixtures allowed. Ditto for flood lights indoor.
 

Don Hills

Well-Known Member
Jun 20, 2013
366
1
323
Wellington, New Zealand
... One nice thing to take advantage of is upsizing. A lot of fixtures have a limit of 65 to 74 watts. Since LED bulbs run so cool, you can go up to 100+ equiv. watts and still run cooler. This allowed us to have much more light outside than existing fixtures allowed. Ditto for flood lights indoor.

A general warning to readers: Don't be tempted to overdo the upsizing. The fixtures are limited in wattage because of their limitations on heat dissipation. LED bulbs have much lower maximum allowable temperatures than incandescent bulbs and can overheat in limited wattage fixtures.
 

treitz3

Super Moderator
Staff member
Dec 25, 2011
5,459
961
1,290
The tube lair in beautiful Rock Hill, SC
Outside they generate far less heat and hence attract a lot less bugs to boot.
Good morning, Amir. I went ahead and reconditioned the lighting on the front porch when I installed the LED bulbs. It hadn't dawned on me until you mentioned this that I haven't seen any bugs swarming around the light fixtures. This made me curious so I just now walked outside to see if there were any bugs in the light fixtures. While I can't say that there are none, there are considerably less present than normal. I found 4 in one and 5 in the other with one major difference. The bugs I saw were gnats that were so small, I had to take a real close look to spot them.

We only moved about 5 or 6 miles from the other house and I would have had to (by now) have taken down the light fixture and clean it out at the old house that had all incandescent bulbs outside. I cleaned that fixture out about 3-5 times a year because the bugs got so full, it hampered lighting up the porch. This is interesting and most definitely a bonus I didn't think I'd get with LED. I sure wasn't "expecting" it. Cool.

Tom
 

amirm

Banned
Apr 2, 2010
15,813
37
0
Seattle, WA
Good morning, Amir. I went ahead and reconditioned the lighting on the front porch when I installed the LED bulbs. It hadn't dawned on me until you mentioned this that I haven't seen any bugs swarming around the light fixtures. This made me curious so I just now walked outside to see if there were any bugs in the light fixtures. While I can't say that there are none, there are considerably less present than normal. I found 4 in one and 5 in the other with one major difference. The bugs I saw were gnats that were so small, I had to take a real close look to spot them.

We only moved about 5 or 6 miles from the other house and I would have had to (by now) have taken down the light fixture and clean it out at the old house that had all incandescent bulbs outside. I cleaned that fixture out about 3-5 times a year because the bugs got so full, it hampered lighting up the porch. This is interesting and most definitely a bonus I didn't think I'd get with LED. I sure wasn't "expecting" it. Cool.

Tom
Good to see my experience was not unique :). I have automated lighting so I would have our outside lights come on at 10% for safety. Power consumption was not a big deal and bulbs were lasting forever (had not had to replace them in 4+ years). So I was reluctant at first to replace them with LEDs. Then I got the idea of putting in LED lighting for increased light at maximum brightness. But with much lower energy usage, I set my system so that it actually is brighter outside when we walk the dogs in the evening. Despite the increased lumens, as I mentioned the amount of bugs accumulating is much lower. LIke you I still have some but it is much less. It is possible that some of this is also due to differing spectrum of light.

On a somewhat similar note, we have a set of 12 volt halogen lights in our kitchen. One of them went out and I replaced it. To my surprised, it still did not work. Then a second one died. I looked at the socket and it was heavily corroded due to huge amount of heat these little bulbs generate. It was so bad that it could not be cleaned. Fortunately the sell replacement sockets so I changed them. Only one came back to life. The other kept coming on and then going off indicating the transformer is likely bad. Unfortunately the transformer is buried in the ceiling some place with no access :(. So I replaced all of these bulbs with LED. I got nicer whiter light and almost no heat. This is allowing the one bulb that kept coming on and going off to work longer. Still shuts off occasionally but I am not motivated to rip out the drywall on a vaulted ceiling to replace the transformer.
 

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