Turning Point in Cartridge Design

MylesBAstor

Well-Known Member
Apr 20, 2010
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New York City
There were many turning points in cartridge design that eventually resulted in what we have come to know as possibly the best crop of cartridges in the history of high-end audio such as those from Lyra, Clearaudio, Benz, Ortofon, Dynavector, ZYX, etc). Many audiophiles will remember the human outcry when Grado released a cartridge costing $600--an unheard of figure in those days-but close to entry level today! What in member's opinion was the turning point in the sound of MC (or MM/MI if ans) carttridges? The point in which they truly became less colored, more resolving and musical and without a significant flaw in one area would eliminate them immediately from consideration?

I have two-the first being the Monster Cable Alpha 2 cartridge. I really wonder how good this cartridge was since the arms of the day weren't half as good as they are today and we didn't have phono sections capaable of amplifying its low output without significant noise, loss of dynamics, etc. The MC Allpha 2 had speed and resolution like I'd never heard before in a cartridge. Guitars had soft shadings, yet maintained their microdynamics (who the hell kniew about mincrodynamics, a word I think more properly called dynamic attack, as musicians use the phrase) of the instrument. The Alpha 2 also has an ability, never surpassed I'd say until my present reference, of unraveling the complex layering of well recorded classical discs!

The second is the Lyra sourced AudioQuest 404 cartridge. At that time, my reference was a Grace F9E mounted in a JVC 7045 arm (with adjustable VTA, virtually unheard of in its day --and raved about by Peter Aczel; Peter later found his God in another world). Now for a little background. HP tallked about this cartridge, among others, in one of his famous cartridge surveys, back in the Golden days of TAS. I listened to the AQ at a local dealer, where it was set up in an ET1 tonearm mounted on a SOTA and run with Counterpoint electronics and Vandersteen 2a speakers. The AQ possessed a sound unlike anything I'd heard witih my Grace. The music had depth; it had resolution; it had low end. Instruments had a 3D body I wasn't getting as well as pinpoint imaging (the trumpet was outside the window I recall). Yes, it might by today's standards be colored and slightly edgy (or maybe not on today's tables!) but it was a tremendous advance IMHO in the sound of MC cartridges.

So what are others landmarks in the development of the present day analog transducer?
 
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es347

VIP/Donor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
1,577
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Midwest fly over state..
Back in 1978 I bought a Rega P3 and mounted a Grace 707 MKII arm with that incredible Grace F9E cartridge you mention. The arm mouting bushing or nipple I guess you could call it, was just slightly too short for the P3 plinth so I have to modify the plinth. That mod no doubt did nothing to enhance the value of my TT but it worked nicely. At the time not knowing azimuth angles or VTAs from my hind-end I stumbled through the setup and believe it or not, it sounded great. I still have that TT but it's sits in the closet. My new P3 is better for sure but that old one is still pretty cool.
 

soundofvoid

WBF Founding Member
Apr 22, 2010
173
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Athens/Greece
The intoduction of "The Colibri" by A.J.Van den Hul.It was (at least to my ears) head and shoulders above the rest top crop!
Probably still is, as the man constantly reworks the original design.
To achieve this kind of transparency and "attack" he completely stripped the body of any excess weight and used a low number of windings on the coils.
A close look reveals a scarily naked body!Many are damaged on first install from owners with fingers like sausages...
BUT you have to have a very low mass arm and probably use a step up transformer as the output is a mere 0,25mvolts.
When it's set up right it's just ethereal-especialy the Platinum version...
 
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nsgarch

Well-Known Member
Apr 20, 2010
88
2
915
The first really BIG improvement in cartridge design (MM or MC) was in my opinion the line contact stylus, first championed by van den Hul. The earlier Shibata was a step in that direction but was limited (in its refinement) by the fact that it was still mechanicaly ground (like gemstones) whereas the modern line-contact/micro-ridge styli are (largely) shaped with lasers allowing the creation of delicate and complex shapes without actually touching the stone (and shattering it!) (I'm pretty sure I have this history essentially right, but won't swear to dates and places ;--)

The Colibri certainly represents a milestone. The main feature (accomplishment?) of the Colibri is its ultra-short cantilever -- achieved of course by the elimination of the front pole piece resulting in a (pretty big) reduction of the strength of the flux around the coils. Its articulation is truly astounding, equalled only by the Decca, which has NO cantilever. The strain gauge cartridge looks promising as a concept, but requires too much other stuff, so will never be plug-n-play.

I was surprised the OP failed to include the (TOTL) Transfiguration cartridges, which employ a cylindrical magnet into which the coils are inserted, and thus totally immersed in the magnetic flux. This design which results in a high output from relatively few coil windings, provides great transient response without resorting to short cantilevers or stiffer suspensions.
 
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silviajulieta

Well-Known Member
Jul 6, 2010
364
15
323
México city. rauliruegas@hotmail.com
Dear friends: I can't speack of precise turning points, I agree with Nsgarch post, but I can speak which cartridges IMHO are the best ones ( quality performance by our each one today standards. ) ever made in no order ( I heard hundreds of any kind of cartridges ( LOMC/MM/MI/Strain G./HOMC/Electrect/Ribbon/Ceramic/Cristal ) and I own 100+ today and vintage LOMC/MM/MI cartridges. ):

Technics EPC 100CMK4, AKG P100-LE, Empire 4000D3, Acutex LPM 315III STR, Ortofon A-90, VdH Colibri, Goldbug Ms Brier, Dynavector XV-1s, Audio Technica ATML 180OCC, Signet TK10ML3, Grado The Amber Tribute, Grace F9 Ruby, Sonus Dimension 5, Lyra Olympos and Allaerts Formula One.
I like to add that no one LOMC cartridges that I heard ( I heard almost all today and many vintage ones. ) or own are at the same level or surpass any MM/MI cartridge name it here. Of course that for a cartridge like the MM/MI ones can shows at its best you need to have a phono stage that match the specific MM/MI needs that are different from the LOMC needs.

Regards and enjoy the music,
Raul.
 
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karma

New Member
Jun 17, 2011
320
1
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82
White Rock, New Mexico
HI Miles,
I agree with you about the Monster cartridges. I had two of the Alpha cartridges and two of the Sigma Genesis 2000's which superceeded the Alpha. I still have a 2000 on my Sota Nova. I think the 2000 was the better of the two. But that does not change the revolutionary nature of the Alpha.

When Monster got out of the cartridge business, I was lost. What to buy? Well, I've solved that problem with my Lyra Skala but at a much higher price. The compensation is the Skala is a better cartridge.

Sparky
 

JackD201

WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
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Manila, Philippines
The Koetsu Black?
 

jadis

Well-Known Member
Apr 28, 2010
12,352
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Manila, Philippines
The Koetsu Black?

I don't know in my own experience if I should call The Koetsu Black a turning point in cartridge design as it does not fit the description of 'a turning point', but in my case, the Black 'stopped' my cartridge merry-go-round for about 8 years. Prior to that, I had and Audio Technica 312, a Grado 8 MR, Alpha 2, Carnegie 1, and a Koetsu 'Ken-Chan', which was nude and was modified by the Scantech people of Lyra. The Black provided a kind of musicality hard to explain in many words, but it was like magic. Before I got it, there were words of mouth that said it was dark, veiled, had flabby bass, and a very colored midrange. Amazingly, when I first installed it, I found it exactly that way. But my patience in tweaking things around, VTA adjustments, cable matching, repositioning the speakers, etc reaped fruits that made myself very content with the music that it produced. If you recall Jack, in your first visit to my place, I was playing this same Black with a then on-loaned Mercury Hi Fi Espanola original FR1 pressing. That was in my recollection the best sound my system ever produced in that period of time. After 8 years of enjoying it, the window to own a brand new Rosewood Signature came (around 4 years ago), and I have been happily using it since then. As I mentioned before, my ultimate goal is to get it changed to a 'stone-body' some day. :)
 

JackD201

WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
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All of this is before my time but I did hear talk from my Uncle and his friends that it was one of the first MC carts that didn't have a propensity to be thin and sharp. It got me wondering if Sugano-San did something different.
 

mullard88

Well-Known Member
Jun 5, 2010
948
62
1,588
If I may add to Jadis' post #8. I have been to Jadis' room a few times and I can attest to the improvement each time he tweaked his speakers' position, vta, etc. To my ears, the breakthrough was when he started tube rolling.

And on JackD201's post #9. Sugano made an earler design for Supex. Hmm, I have not heard the Sugano Supex myself, maybe I should look for an nos unit to listen to.
 

naturephoto1

Member
May 24, 2010
820
7
16
Breinigsville, PA
www.nelridge.com
There were many turning points in cartridge design that eventually resulted in what we have come to know as possibly the best crop of cartridges in the history of high-end audio such as those from Lyra, Clearaudio, Benz, Ortofon, Dynavector, ZYX, etc). Many audiophiles will remember the human outcry when Grado released a cartridge costing $600--an unheard of figure in those days-but close to entry level today! What in member's opinion was the turning point in the sound of MC (or MM/MI if ans) carttridges? The point in which they truly became less colored, more resolving and musical and without a significant flaw in one area would eliminate them immediately from consideration?

I have two-the first being the Monster Cable Alpha 2 cartridge. I really wonder how good this cartridge was since the arms of the day weren't half as good as they are today and we didn't have phono sections capaable of amplifying its low output without significant noise, loss of dynamics, etc. The MC Allpha 2 had speed and resolution like I'd never heard before in a cartridge. Guitars had soft shadings, yet maintained their microdynamics (who the hell kniew about mincrodynamics, a word I think more properly called dynamic attack, as musicians use the phrase) of the instrument. The Alpha 2 also has an ability, never surpassed I'd say until my present reference, of unraveling the complex layering of well recorded classical discs!

So what are others landmarks in the development of the present day analog transducer?

Myles,

I had a Monster Cable Alpha Genesis 500 in a Rega RB300 tonearm on my modified Thorens 125 MKII.

Rich
 

microstrip

VIP/Donor
May 30, 2010
20,806
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The intoduction of "The Colibri" by A.J.Van den Hul.It was (at least to my ears) head and shoulders above the rest top crop! (...).

I second your preference for the vhH Colibri's. I have owned the van den Hul BLACK BEAUTY Special-X for the last 15 years, and except for the occasional trip to Holland to re-tip and re-tune it is stable in my system. I also own cartridges with better bass, may be more dramatic, but in my system this cartridge has the right equilibrium of neutrality, spaciousness, dynamics and lack of vinyl noise.
 

hifitommy

Well-Known Member
well, i do so love the sound of my f9e and would have loved to have the f9r (enid's favorite) but ALAS. i did get to hear the monsters 1000 and 2000 and yes, they were magic in my friend's system but the diamond came off both. that prevented me form lusting for them.

as i understand it, the same guy now makes the ZYX carts that are so highly spoken of, perhaps the diamonds are more secure on them. another friend had a 404 on an alphason/oracle setup and was enamored of it. too bad he is a jerk, ripped me off for my audiotechnica isolation feet.

before the grace (long before) i was and still am in love with the sound of the original XLM with its very short cantilever and high compliance. it worked well in my rabco st4 and later in my grace 707. another cart i would dearly love to try is the dynavector 23r or 17d which also has an incredibly short cantilever.

i limp by with my FR1 IIIf and stable of other carts which can be viewed at the asylum inmate systems. the v15Vxmr leaves me gasping for music but maybe the sas stylus will someday light in my mailbox. i could also be persuaded to install an ortofon Kb.

koetsus are rumored to be quite delicate but i would also be willing to own one. if they deliver string texture like hearing the strings live, i would risk it.

i see that i am late to the party for this thread but none of the opinions here seem like they would stagnate.
 

karma

New Member
Jun 17, 2011
320
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HI Tommy,
I don't understand the diamond problems your friend had. I have owned two Genesis 1000's and two Sigma Genesis 2000's. I still have a 2000 mounted on my Sota Nova vacuum turntable and it still gets used. It's a really good cartridge. I have had zero problems nor have I heard that others have had problems. So, your friends issues are a mystery to me.

Sparky
 

MylesBAstor

Well-Known Member
Apr 20, 2010
11,236
81
1,725
New York City
HI Tommy,
I don't understand the diamond problems your friend had. I have owned two Genesis 1000's and two Sigma Genesis 2000's. I still have a 2000 mounted on my Sota Nova vacuum turntable and it still gets used. It's a really good cartridge. I have had zero problems nor have I heard that others have had problems. So, your friends issues are a mystery to me.

Sparky

Could have been the stylus cleaning fluids (high ROH content) were using eating away at the bonding glue. Know that some manufacturers had issues years ago (Spectral somehow comes to mind) and I always suggested that owners ask the manufacturer for cleaning fluid recommendations. Don't think that's an issue nowadays.

Or maybe they were using the Linn method of cleaning the stylus? That might have pulled the stylus off too!
 

karma

New Member
Jun 17, 2011
320
1
0
82
White Rock, New Mexico
HI Tommy and Myles,
Myles, you may be right. Over the years I had settled on isopropyl alcohol as my stylus cleaner. Not sure but I don't think this is unusual. In the past couple of years I changed to Last Stylus Cleaner. Both do an excellent job of stylus cleaning. I used alcohol all during the time I had the Monster cartridges with nary a problem. I really didn't have a good reason to change to the Last cleaner except that I trust the company because of their Record Preservative and Stylast products. Better music through better chemicals!!

None the less, Tommy's comments are the first I have ever heard of problems with Monster diamonds.

BTW, a stylus microscope is a great way to actually see if the stylus is really squeaky clean. After one has confirmed that their cleaner is really doing the job, there is no further reason to continue checking with the microscope.

Sparky
 

hifitommy

Well-Known Member
hi fellas,

i cant explain the diamond failures, but he did buy the carts used so who knows what was used. as years progressed from the days of the XLM (perhaps my favorite) when we used alcohol for stylus cleaning, we heeded the warnings about the alcohol diminishing the integrity of the diamond's bond and potential deterioration of the suspension material.

my friend dearly loved the sound of those monsters and guarded them fiercely. as for the 'scope, i only have a handheld 50x from edmund scientific to conveniently use with my detachable headshells. i dont look all the time, as sparky says, once you get the confidence, frequency should reduce. still, i dont get too complacent and i look now and again just to be sure.

i lost a diamond from my oc9 but i think its because i bopped it on a record pretty hard once. i was one of the lucky ones to get in on AT's $155 replacement offer. they just sent me a new oc9II in place of my original from the early 90s.
 

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