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Thread: Digital Audio Jitter explained in simple terms

  1. #51
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    http://www.esstech.com/files/4614/40...out-jitter.pdf
    ______

    Repeat: HDMI Audio Jitter Reduction
    "The UDP-205 features a high-stability, high-precision HDMI clock and a special HDMI audio jitter reduction circuit. This unique design significantly reduces jitter and eliminates timing errors, allowing you to enjoy your music with increased accuracy when you use the audio-only HDMI output port for connecting the audio signal. PCM and DSD signals rely on the HDMI clock directly, so the HDMI audio jitter reduction circuitry can improve the sound quality of PCM and DSD audio. For compressed bitstream audio, it helps to ensure error-free transmission, and may improve the audio performance depending on whether the audio decoder in the A/V processor or receiver uses a synchronous or asynchronous clock scheme."

    ______

    Digital audio through HDMI needs all the help it can gets on this day of the year 2017 with a clean audio sync signal all the way thru from in-out-in-out with the least amount of jitter interference. It cannot hurt to start with the player. This is NEW.



    Any insight from anyone is most sought after in the pursuit of advancement knowledge towards a 'cleaner' musical audio world ♫
    All the Very Best, - Bob --------- "And it stoned me to my soul" - Van Morrison --------- AudiophileAudition

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob
    To take full advantage from it do I need a pre/amp with also a jitter reduction HDMI input?
    Quote Originally Posted by amirm View Post
    Unless this is something new, the answer is yes. ARC or Audio Rate Control (not to be mistaken with Audio Return Channel) puts the receiver in charge of clock instead of the other way around (as is normally the case with HDMI). In doing so, the DAC clock can be used to drive the source and with it, sharply reduce jitter.

    Unfortunately ARC is not a common feature in AVRs. I have only seen it from companies like Pioneer who built both ends of it (Blu-ray player and AVR). So having it in the Oppo player by itself doesn't do you any good.
    It seems that for best fidelity the jitter reduction (clock sync) feature has to be part of the entire audio chain: by dmusoke

    That's from the Oppo 205's HDMI Audio Out jitter reduction feature. So yes, it would be beneficial to plug that output into a pre/pro or AV receiver that also has its own HDMI jitter reduction circuit (clock).

    Some Pioneer Elite components have that digital HDMI interface called PQLS. Here's just an example (like you and I mentioned earlier):

    "As HDMI® has become the new high-definition cable connection of choice, HDMI is susceptible to digital transmission errors known as “jitter.” Jitter is caused by timing errors in the digital bit-stream between two connected components and can cause audibly noticeable problems sonically expressed by a lack of detail, depth, imaging, and ultimately a natural sound-field. The VSX-23TXH is the entry point for Pioneer’s exclusive PQLS-Multi technology that can solve these problems when coupled with a PQLS-Multi equipped Pioneer Blu-Ray Disc® player (BDP-23FD). By using the 2-way HDMI CEC communication capabilities of the HDMI spec, Pioneer Elite PQLS components “talk to each other” and “speed synchronize” the digital clocks between them using the receiver’s Precision Quartz Lock System (PQLS) to buffer and synchronize the digital audio signals, effectively removing the effects of jitter for a clear, pristine, natural sounding digital transfer. PQLS-Multi removes the effects of jitter with 2-channel CD playback and now from multi-channel DVD and Blu-Ray Disc soundtracks."

    Pioneer has been @ it for quite some time.
    ______

    Some Denon components too, with the Denon Link: http://denon-uk.custhelp.com/app/ans...-configuration
    http://www.denon.com/Pages/GlossaryDetail.aspx?GId=14

    "DENON LINK 4th uses the master clock in the A/V surround receiver as the reference for controlling the video circuitry and the disc drive in the player, and the digital video and audio signals from Blu-ray disc are transmitted to the A/V surround receiver via an HDMI cable. This is how our DENON LINK 4th works.
    DENON LINK 4th is able to transmit digital audio signals with negligible jitter because it has audio devices share the same clock. In addition, DENON LINK 4th has achieved a world first by suppressing jitter to an absolute minimum even for the playback of Blu-ray discs that include video signals."


    And Meridian also (but this one is not HDMI, it uses three coaxial cables...I believe): http://www.meridianunplugged.com/ubb...r=85498&page=1
    Bob Stuart

    "A digital DVD-Audio interface is part of Meridan’s v3 upgrade for their 800 series products.
    Known as MHR Smart Link, the proprietary, encrypted digital interface enables multi-channel content from either DVD-Audio or DVD-Video discs to be delivered from Meridian’s 800 DVD player to the company’s 861 reference surround controller and DSP loudspeakers via a trio of RCA coaxial cables. Meridian MHR is the first proprietary link to be approved for the transmission of DVD-Audio content entirely within the digital domain. The link also carries meta information about the format and type of material being played, enabling the 861 to accurately identify all incoming formats without needing to analyse the bitstream itself, something that often leads to processing delays. According to Bob Stuart, Chairman of Meridian Audio, even incorrectly flagged DTS material from DTS music discs can be reliably identified and decoded this way.
    The benefits are clear; not only can the 861 be programmed to react in a desired way to any type of incoming data and channel content, but also by transmitting DVD-Audio material digitally it allows the processor to perform bass management and time alignment entirely within the digital domain."

    ______

    There are other audio companies that use their own proprietary digital interface between the pre/pro and the source, to have a cleaner (jitter-free) audio signal transmission. I think Theta Digital, and I'm sure others.

    So, in order to take full advantage of digital HDMI jitter reduction (like in the Oppo 204 HDMI Audio Out), it would be preferable to connect it to a pre/pro or AV receiver having its own master clock with jitter reduction circuitry. If the pre/pro produces more jitter than the source, the full benefit won't be achieved.

    In real life listening test, I too doubt that we can discern with absolute certainty. But from measurements it is for sure in the pudding below the cream. ...Way of speech.
    ______

    In regards to ARC (CEC activated in order to activate ARC - Audio Channel Return): It is a nice feature, but often diabolical.
    The other ARC (Audio Rate Control); you are right Amir, not to be confused, is the way to go. And you're also right; I don't know many AV receivers and pre/pros advertising that feature. Maybe Oppo can design their own pre/pro with it, to match its 205 4K BR player?

    If someone who buy the Oppo 205 and mate it with say an inexpensive receiver ($1,000 or less), can he benefit? I would say not.
    But what about with a high end pre/pro ($10,000 or more)? The pre/pros of that price caliber must all have a top notch HDMI jitter reduction clock, right?
    How do we know for sure short of measuring; from the given specs, the literature, the advertisement, ...?
    Between a lo end receiver ($149) and a hi end pre/pro (state-of-the-art) ... $40,000 plus; the difference from their digital HDMI interface with the source connected to them, which one has a factual benefit in reducing digital jitter?

    We most likely get what we pay for. ...In & out. The less jitter (pico seconds) the better the synchronization of our audio signal transmission reproduced from our speakers to our ears...cleaner, more accurate music reproduction, as the artist musician with his sound mixer/recording engineer intended.
    @ our end we prefer reference sound. ...Or we can go home and buy our own DSP engine to fabricate and metamorphose the reference (good and bad) to our own taste.
    The law says nothing about personal sound preference, only to not awake our neighbors in the middle of the night with loud music, or between 10:00 pm and 7:00 am. If living underground in a waterproof and soundproof bunker with two-foot thick concrete cement walls, the extended arm of the law has no reach.

    True, it's important to have fun, to have a good sense of humor, to not take ourselves too seriously, and put the emphasis where it counts the most; friends and family.
    Having friends and family who are jitter-free is like living happy in a better world.
    Jittery people; it starts @ the source and ends up @ the other hand.
    _____

    I know more today than what I knew then. Thanks Paul and Amir.
    It's from discussions in search of higher learning that we can all advance, no matter how slow or how fast the level of our own affinity, towards the path of the holy grail...immortality...music ecstasy...a world free of jittery turbulence. We take good care of our audio, of our picture...for the love of music and movies. ...Because people matter first; artists, musicians, filmmakers, composers, actors/actresses, singers, operas, ballets, jazz bands, blues bands, classical orchestras, ...creators of the arts in the entertainment world. ...All that jazz.
    All the Very Best, - Bob --------- "And it stoned me to my soul" - Van Morrison --------- AudiophileAudition

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