Tuners

MylesBAstor

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Apr 20, 2010
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Actually, since the famous WGBH took over the local typical classical-hits (imagine "the Mozart block at 9 o'clock" crap) station about a year ago the quality has gone way way up - this past weekend they had all kinds of excellent Classic records reissues, like Beethoven's violin conc with Heifetz, Brahm's conc (also with Heifetz I believe), even Reference Recordings. The BSO live isn't all about the performance, not the sound.

BTW, Mahler's Second is on this coming October and my wife and I are going... the fun part is when we come home and listen to our system... hahahaha; can you say night and day :)

Last time I went to Symphony Hall, heard Mahler's 7th with Rattle and the BSO. I'll never forget how large scale, symphonic music sounds in Symphony Hall! It's an experience to behold as the music washes over you. There's no audio system on earth that will ever do justice to Mahler, today or in the future :)

And Symphony Hall is sadly one of the last of the great halls left standing :(
 

jcmusic

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May 20, 2010
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Well I have plenty of them in the past, currently though I am using a modded Sansui TU 710 really good reception. My other is a Scott LT 110-B tube type excellent sound quality. I sold my Scott 310-E probably should not have oh well!!!

Jay
 
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stellavox

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Apr 23, 2010
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One of my most memorable analog listening experiences was "basking in the glow" of some live Boston Symphony performances heard in Romy the Cat's Downtown Boston Burrow. He had a Rhode-Schwartz(sp?) tuner with its accessory multiplex decoder (actually two of each) and the sound through his EXTREMELY eclectic system transported me to the hall. I tried to match it with my REL Precedent stereo modification but couldn't get the quieting (dynamic range) that the German stuff provided.

As posters mention, the days of great analog FM are rapidly going if not gone. FM reception sucks here in the valleys of Central NY so I don't even bother - but if I lived near certain metropolitan areas I might give it a shot again.

Charles
 

MylesBAstor

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Gregadd

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Playing now for you Frank Sinatra fans 3-4pm EDST 89.3 FM WPFW (WDC) WWW.WPFW.org
 

stellavox

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Apr 23, 2010
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are they still in production Charles

Steve,

I can't give you specific dates but the Precedent was produced in the early 1950's and reviewed in the July 1955 issue of Audio. Believe that only a few hundred were ever made. Also don't know the original price but "remember" something like $600!

Myles,

It is stunning - and defines (for me at least) "whats best" in tube tuners. Shit - there goes the price (again)!
 

RogerD

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May 23, 2010
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I purchased a Mac MR78 originally and use it ocassionaly. Up here in Reno there's only 2 fm stations that are decent, both NPR. I have a POLK XM receiver that I use daily, decent sound.
 

Gregadd

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Gregadd

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American songbook moved 200 EDST WPFW 89.3. www.wpfw.com Just heard Never Will I Marry, Nancy Wilson.
 

tmallin

WBF Technical Expert
May 19, 2010
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Unlike many here, I listen to a lot of music via FM tuners and have done so for many years. These days in my reference system I use either a Day Sequerra M4.2R HD FM/AM tuner or vintage Sansui TU-X1 tuner, either of which is fed from an attic mounted Channel Master FM-9 Stereo Probe 9-element Yagi antenna and 100 feet of unspliced RG-6 quad shield wire.

Never discount the importance of a good FM antenna for broadcast reception. In many locations, the antenna, its mounting, and lead in wire is far more important to getting satisfactory or better sound quality from a potentially good FM signal than the tuner is. In other words, a great antenna feeding a pedestrian FM tuner will in many locations sound FAR, FAR better than a folded dipole feeding the world's best tuner.

Of course, with most FM stations, there is no potentially good sounding FM signal being broadcast. I've been blessed to live in areas with either high-quality FM programming, high-quality FM content, or both, most of my life since 1970. Chicago's WFMT is both and is literally a unique broadcast (and free on line) FM station. Most of the programming is classical music and arts talk, but within that realm, there is none finer, and that type of programming suits my tastes just fine. WFMT engineers many recordings of live orchestral, chamber, and opera recordings in many venues and the sound quality of those, despite FM's supposed bandwidth limitations, just has to be heard to be believed. Then there are the Friday and Saturday night forays into jazz and folk. I don't think you will hear Jazz From Lincoln Center broadcast in as fine a fidelity anywhere else and the live and recorded folk music on Saturday night is again unmatched in production standards. These guys know music and know how to get the most fidelity onto the airwaves.

My first tuner was a Dynaco FM-5 I bought in college and kept for many years. Eventually I replaced it with other newer models, such as the Sony STJ-75, Tandberg 3001A, Van Alstine FET-Valve tuner (a modified Hafler), and others. But if you can find an old Dyna FM-5 of 6 in working order, it is still a nice sounding tuner. Give it a good antenna feed and it sounds very fine.

Then I started getting "serious" about tuners. I auditioned several vintage and new McIntosh units, but really couldn't get excited. Yes, they have good RF front ends and will pull stations very well, but that is of secondary inportance in my Chicagoland location. Sonically they were okay, but not world beaters. And I didn't want to care for and feed a Marantz 10B. I had a few Magnum Dynalabs on loan over the years, but again found them to be not up to their reputation, either in terms of freedom from background noise or in other sonic criteria.

The vintage Sansui TU-X1 I now have replaced a Fanfare FT-1A with Kimber KCAG internal silver wiring. Before purchasing the Fanfare, I compared this over several days in my system against a Magnum Dynalab MD-102. While the Magnum sometimes generated an endearingly larger and more relaxed sonic picture, in all other respects, the Fanfare beat it. The Fanfare pulled in weak adjacent channels significantly cleaner than the Magnum. The Fanfare had less background noise and hiss, and lacked the slight constant background grunge which some other reviewers of the MD 102 have noted. Instruments sounded more like themselves tonally on the Fanfare. The imaging and soundstaging was much more precise and specific and changed more dramatically from station to station and selection to selection than on the Magnum, which I took as an indication that the Fanfare was imposing less of its own sound on the signal. The Fanfare's bass response was far deeper, tighter, and more detailed than the Magnum's, and its macrodynamics were at least as good. Then, of course, there was the Fanfare's superior ergonomics, with its included full-function remote control. Finally, unlike others, I find the Magnum's front panel, meters, switches and overall look to be just plain ugly. The switches of the Magnum, while appearing substantial, look and feel clunky. On a good sounding station, such as Chicago's WFMT, the Fanfare really did sound like a high quality CD player--better than CD in some significant ways on live or taped classical transmissions.

The vintage Sansui TU-X1 goes the Fanfare one--actually several--better. This is one of the top rated FM tuners over on the Tuner Information Center site. Not that the Fanfare is bad or even mediocre--far from it. It is still excellent in my book. But the vintage Sansui has amazingly good sound on a good source like WFMT, and draws you in even on mediocre stations. There is a sweetness and low distortion to the sound that the Fanfare and Magnums can't touch, and the greater three-dimensional imaging and staging must be heard to be appreciated. Instruments sound more like they do live. The word 'analog' comes to mind, maybe because that is what it is, an 'old-fashioned' truly analog FM tuner. It's as if even digital sources at the radio station are being played on fine analog turntables. And live location broadcasts of classical fare are unbelievably good. Background hiss is about as low on any station as with the Fanfare, which means quieter than anything else I've tried. After having the Sansui aligned and all its capacitors replaced by by Mark Wilson of Absolute Sound Labs in Minnesota, the tuner matches the Fanfare in the only areas where it previously might have been second: inky black background, dynamics, and bass extension and punch. FM sound quality is maximized by detuning and muting the AM reception and by shorting the second FM antenna input. RF-wise, the Sansui is at least as good as getting and quieting distant and adjacent stations as the Fanfare, which means better than the Magnum MD-102 and better than anything else I've owned. This is a honey and a definite long-term keeper. By the way, mine is in truly excellent condition after restoration up by Absolute Sound Labs.

But the DaySequerra M4.2R is AT LEAST as good as the Sansui in my system. In my location, 30 miles from the transmitter, and limited as I am by the covenants of our development to an attic-mounted antenna, the advantages of HD done right, as in this unit and a good HD signal like WFMT broadcasts, outweigh the superiorities of the analog FM signal. Even on the best station, WFMT, while analog FM through the Sansui has better depth and midbass/lower midrange "roundness," the DaySequerra's HD reception is better in terms of freedom from audible distortion, clean high frequencies, dynamics, bass extension, and freedom from background noise.
 
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amirm

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Apr 2, 2010
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Tom makes a good point. I still remember the day I hooked up a "TV Antenna" to my FM tuner. The sound improvement is quite large. The FM difference signal really suffers badly due to lack of RF strength and once it gets mixed with the mono signal, it can make a mess (hence the reason mono FM usually sounds better). Any half decent antenna will do over wire hanging out the back.

I now have HD radio in my car and it completely supersedes the fidelity of analog FM. I have not heard it in home setting but in the car, I see no reason to listen to analog FM. Lisping is improved, as is separation and frequency response.
 

tmallin

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May 19, 2010
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Tom makes a good point. I still remember the day I hooked up a "TV Antenna" to my FM tuner. The sound improvement is quite large. The FM difference signal really suffers badly due to lack of RF strength and once it gets mixed with the mono signal, it can make a mess (hence the reason mono FM usually sounds better). Any half decent antenna will do over wire hanging out the back.

I now have HD radio in my car and it completely supersedes the fidelity of analog FM. I have not heard it in home setting but in the car, I see no reason to listen to analog FM. Lisping is improved, as is separation and frequency response.

I agree about car listening. I have HD radio in both our cars and it is far better sounding overall for motoring around for the reasons you mention, as well as just less noise pumping from background multipath from tall buildings.

Also, I forgot to mention that the HD sound of the DaySequerra in my home reference system is further aided by the fact that this tuner has a full-time AES digital output which feeds either the internally digitized analog FM signal or the HD signal directly into my PS Audio Perfect Wave DAC, whereas in my system the signal from my vintage analog Sansui tuner now has to go through an A/D conversion via my TacT to be heard.
 

Gregadd

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There is always something of value on this site. I was about to throw away my anolog tv antenna. Now I can use it on my tuner. Thanks amirm..
 

tmallin

WBF Technical Expert
May 19, 2010
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There is always something of value on this site. I was about to throw away my anolog tv antenna. Now I can use it on my tuner. Thanks amirm..

I now use my also-attic-mounted large Winegard TV antenna to feed FM signals to the other FM tuners in my house. Much better than dipole sound, but not as good as a dedicated FM antenna like my Channel Master. Also, over-the-air broadcast HD TV signals usually look considerably better than the same HD signals from my cable or satellite provider. So if your TV set has a built-in HD tuner (most recent flat panel sets do), and you are close enough to receive the HDTV signals, give it a try. You may be pleasantly surprised at the quality.

Most everyone thinks that the very best FM antennas are the models built by Antenna Performance Specialties, especially the huge (200-inch boom) APS-13. It probably has at least 3 dB more front-to-back gain than my Channel Master. I looked today, however, and could no longer find that company's presence on the Web. If you are looking for a new FM antenna and can still find it, that's the one to get, if you can mount it. A huge antenna like that requires a large attic or a very sturdy outdoor mast to resist high winds.
 

Steve Williams

Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
I just remember as a kid growing up every house had at least one antenna and then an FM antenna and some houses having multiples of both. I even remember having an antenna with a motor on then top so that the antenna could rotate to best capture the signal. It was better than all others because you could track the signal. Then along came a thing called cable and how quickly those unsightly roof top antennas disappeared. Ones social status rose in the community if their antenna was gone becaus it meant they could afford cable.

Isn't the story similar with vinyl when the CD was born?
 

Steve Williams

Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
For Tom or Amir.........

I don't drive a car with HD stereo or have a tuner in my house HD. I don't know anything about it but judging from both your posts it seems that it is worth exploring. Amir I know you don't like satellite radio because it is too compressed.

BTW Tom that Sansui tuner sounds precious. I owned one many years ago and IIRC did a stupid thing and traded it for a Yamaha tuner
 

Gregadd

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I'm probably the only person without a flat screen tv. Actually the screen is flat but it is also more square than rectangular. I kept waiting for the price to go down. Moreover I would rather spend my money on audio. Complicating matters further I'm not into surround sound and my local cable feed sucks. Committing to an antenna would not be so bad I could mount it on the balcony of my third floor apartment. I don't want it struck by lightening. We do get some nice pyrotechnics around here. I may be able to find an antenna at a yard sale or something. On a cold crisp winter night you can get one hell of a signal. Not just jazz and classical some great blues, R&B and Rock.

Hey! I got a Nakamachi cassette deck I can record them on.

BTW My tuner is a used Yamaha CT-7000.
 

naturephoto1

Member
May 24, 2010
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Ed Hanlon of Antenna Performance Specialties modified my Sansui TU-9900 AM/FM tuner last year. It is supposed to be one of the best tuners after modification and have been happy with it. It took Ed and APS a long time for the work. As I recall, Ed had indicated that they had moved the shop and I thought that they were changing the name. I just sent an e-mail off to Ed at his personal e-mail that he was using last year. I will fill everyone in if I hear anything from Ed regarding whether he is in fact still in business for FM tuner modifications and antennas. Unfortunately Ed has not been the best at responding to e-mails but I will report back once I hear.

Rich
 

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