Does it make sense to put isolation devices under speakers?

MylesBAstor

Well-Known Member
Apr 20, 2010
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i don't exactly know.

but it's likely to do with impedence changes. different types of materials transfer energy or absorb energy in different ways. so essentially noise enters each end and is absorbed or converted to heat or some such thing.

I think the idea is more that the energy is disapated at the interface between the different materials. Sort of like refraction/reflection of light. Maybe that's too simple minded.
 

LL21

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Dec 26, 2010
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Hi caesar,



It makes a great deal of sense to me.
One of the roller bearing designs in particular, impressed me greatly. But I thought the concept could be taken further, so I created my own roller bearing design (which I call Hip Joints) and had a local machinist make me a few prototype sets. I was so pleased with the results - which were confirmed by a number of acquaintances who compared Hip Joints with my commercial favorites - that I had the machinist make me enough sets to accommodate everything in my system.As a lark, one day I decided to try a set of Hip Joints under my Maggies. I was not prepared to find that speakers presented even greater degrees of improvement than even digital gear does. I put up a long post on another forum on which I used to participate and referred to the non-isolated speakers as "bound and gagged" by comparison. Every sonic parameter I know how to describe took a nice big step upward. By the way, both of my subs are also "afloat" on Hip Joints now.
Barry
www.soundkeeperrecordings.com
www.barrydiamentaudio.com

hi Barry...could not see the hipjoints in your photos. Will they accommodate any speaker? I am curious about how effective they might be on mine. Do you make them to order?
 

bdiament

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Apr 26, 2012
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Hi lloydelee21,

hi Barry...could not see the hipjoints in your photos. Will they accommodate any speaker? I am curious about how effective they might be on mine. Do you make them to order?

Hip Joints (and my Enjoyyourshelf racks - the world's first piece of furniture with a fully independent suspension! ;-}) are not commercial products. I made them for my own use in my studio.
Hip Joints are 2" circles of aluminum, 1/2" thick, with a shallow "bowl" in the top.

I've used them for years under heavy amps and under my Magnepans (now 3.7s) with no issues.

Best regards,
Barry
www.soundkeeperrecordings.com
www.barrydiamentaudio.com
 

LL21

Well-Known Member
Dec 26, 2010
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Hi lloydelee21,



Hip Joints (and my Enjoyyourshelf racks - the world's first piece of furniture with a fully independent suspension! ;-}) are not commercial products. I made them for my own use in my studio.
Hip Joints are 2" circles of aluminum, 1/2" thick, with a shallow "bowl" in the top.

I've used them for years under heavy amps and under my Magnepans (now 3.7s) with no issues.

Best regards,
Barry
www.soundkeeperrecordings.com
www.barrydiamentaudio.com

Thanks...sounds nice.
 

JackD201

WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
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Manila, Philippines
Not sure about the Wave Kinetics footers Mike but when I experimented several years ago with decouplers I found it most difficult to maintain the speakers in a true upright position based on the way in which the decouplers are made

Same here.
 

lapaix

Well-Known Member
Apr 27, 2012
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Decouplers under speakers

I recently put Stillpoint Ultras under my Lansche 3s. The effect was dramatic in every parameter. It was the most cost-effective upgrade I have ever made. Now they are under all my equipment. Of course, there are now Ultra 5s (at three times the cost). I can't afford to do that experiment.
 

treitz3

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I have had great experiences isolating all electronics with Still points - amps, preamps, digital sources, etc.

But does it make sense to use isolation devices under speakers?
Hello, ceasar. To me, absolutely.

FWIW, my speakers are full range floorstanders and I have them on spikes with pennies underneath the spikes [idea from Gary's thread], sitting on hardwood plinths that match very closely the footprint of the speakers them self. This is on a concrete substrate, padded with carpet. The wood plinths softened and perhaps warmed the sound up a bit but with no loss of clarity and [to me] a rather significant rise of the overall perceived height of the sound stage. My first impressions of placing the pennies underneath the spikes weren't that favorable but I decided to leave them in. I'll take them back out after another month or so and see if I still have the same observations but other than that, it absolutely makes sense to put isolation devices under the speakers. Personally, I wouldn't have it any other way. They just sound better, tighter, more focused with less "boom". Plus in may case with the plinths? It is SO much easier to move the speakers when the need arises. You just slide them instead of "walking" them because they simply weight too much to just pick up and place them somewhere else.

Both of my subs are on stands that are spiked as well.
 

LL21

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Dec 26, 2010
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Good point...i have an Auralex platform specifically for subwoofers under my sub. Whoa...so incredibly better, i actually created an entire thread just for it.
 

DonH50

Member Sponsor & WBF Technical Expert
Jun 22, 2010
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I have measured Doppler distortion from speakers not firmly anchored. Whether it is audible is another topic... Unfortunately, that was 30+ years ago and I don't have much more than a memory. It was a small change but interesting to see.

One of the things that changes when you use spikes, especially for speakers with drivers (or ports) near the floor, is that you are also raising the driver and changing the speaker/floor boundary interaction. How much of what you hear is do that I cannot say, just a comment.
 

mep

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
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Hello, ceasar. To me, absolutely.

FWIW, my speakers are full range floorstanders and I have them on spikes with pennies underneath the spikes [idea from Gary's thread], sitting on hardwood plinths that match very closely the footprint of the speakers them self. This is on a concrete substrate, padded with carpet. The wood plinths softened and perhaps warmed the sound up a bit but with no loss of clarity and [to me] a rather significant rise of the overall perceived height of the sound stage. My first impressions of placing the pennies underneath the spikes weren't that favorable but I decided to leave them in. I'll take them back out after another month or so and see if I still have the same observations but other than that, it absolutely makes sense to put isolation devices under the speakers. Personally, I wouldn't have it any other way. They just sound better, tighter, more focused with less "boom". Plus in may case with the plinths? It is SO much easier to move the speakers when the need arises. You just slide them instead of "walking" them because they simply weight too much to just pick up and place them somewhere else.

Both of my subs are on stands that are spiked as well.

Are the wood plinths spiked to the floor?
 

Ronm1

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Feb 21, 2011
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Are the wood plinths spiked to the floor?

I'll mention that I did that and was quite pleased. Aided with tweeter height too! Auralex with sub and similar slanted pads on large raised center channel, that also helped with ctr angle!
 

treitz3

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garylkoh

WBF Technical Expert (Speakers & Audio Equipment)
Sep 6, 2010
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www.genesisloudspeakers.com
FWIW, my speakers are full range floorstanders and I have them on spikes with pennies underneath the spikes [idea from Gary's thread], sitting on hardwood plinths that match very closely the footprint of the speakers them self. This is on a concrete substrate, padded with carpet. The wood plinths softened and perhaps warmed the sound up a bit but with no loss of clarity and [to me] a rather significant rise of the overall perceived height of the sound stage. My first impressions of placing the pennies underneath the spikes weren't that favorable but I decided to leave them in. I'll take them back out after another month or so and see if I still have the same observations

I would take the pennies out from underneath the spikes - they are there to protect an expensive hardwood floor (and sound much better than "spike cups"). However, if your hardwood plinths are just for de-coupling from the concrete substrate, and you don't mind holes in them, I suspect that the speakers would sound better without the pennies.
 

treitz3

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Hey, Gary! I enjoyed reading that thread I referred too, BTW. Good read. The original idea for the wood plinths was to raise the actual height of the speaker. Back when I didn't have the plinths, I noticed that when I slouched down in the listening chair that the sound was more solid, complete and basically more pleasurable with the perceived height of the sound stage and imaging more palpable. When I added the plinths, it seemed as if everything came into fruition and many of my gripes simply vanished. Another added bonus was that [as I mentioned before], the sound got a little bit more softened and it seemed to warm the sound up a bit. Win, win situation in my book.

Perhaps I will move the removal of the pennies to sooner rather than later. I do know that my immediate observations were that I didn't prefer them in place but I thought perhaps it would grow on me. I'll chime back in after I remove them and let you know if my observations remain the same. I would do it now but I'm busy building my wife a flower garden for Mother's day and our 5 year anniversary.

In the meantime, I'll start looking for spikes for the plinths. I have a set of gold spikes but I'm not quite sure about how it will look to the eyes. I think I'd rather have some platinum or dark colored spikes. Perhaps a matching set of what I already have on the speakers them self. I think that will be easier on my eyes, IMO.
 

rbbert

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Dec 12, 2010
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I think I've already posted about this in Gary's previous folder, but I noticed a definite improvement with cones right into my hardwood floor (which is glued to a concrete slab) as opposed to on pennies or spike cups.
 

Reid.Whitney

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Jun 28, 2012
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www.herzan.com
i would wager that high quality decoupling of those speakers in Mr. Ludwig's studio would outperform the grounding to the bedrock. assuming, of course, that the decouplers sat on the bedrock.

the bedrock has it's own noise floor too. certainly less than the Studio building but it's there none-the-less.

another way to look at this would be how would an electron microscope be spec'd ideally to be installed in that spot. no way would it sit on the bedrock; you could never get the visual resolution you needed. you would need some sort of isolation. this isolation device would work best with the most solid footing, but it would be essential for optimal performance.

http://www.herzan.com/resources/tutorials.html

the 575 pound speakers in my room sit on 6" of concrete over 'Glacier Till'; which is the rock and dirt compressed from a receeding glacier. i'm on the side of a mountain far away from any main road or highway. so almost zero environmental energy. pretty solid stuff. yet the decoupling footers made a huge positive difference.

Hello All,

I work for Herzan who specializes in various forms of vibration isolation. Typically our customers pertain to the nanotechnology field, however, we have received interest from people trying to maximize audio clarity from their high-end equipment.

Decoupling is important and there are some quality inexpensive (and expensive) solutions to achieve vibration reduction, cancellation or whatever you prefer to call it. I do enjoy learning about the methods used in vibration reduction. The theory for vibration reduction tends to remains the same, but the applications and solutions used always seem to differ.

If anyone is interested in learning more about vibration reduction or my company (Herzan), I will be glad to discuss.

Best,

Reid Whitney
 

treitz3

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I would take the pennies out from underneath the spikes - they are there to protect an expensive hardwood floor (and sound much better than "spike cups"). However, if your hardwood plinths are just for de-coupling from the concrete substrate, and you don't mind holes in them, I suspect that the speakers would sound better without the pennies.

Ah, I completely forgot to update this thread. Thanks for the reminder and welcome to the forum, Mr. Whitney. I did end up taking the pennies out and your suspicions were correct Gary, my observations since the removal is that they sound better without them installed under the spikes. I still haven't gotten around to ordering the spikes for the plinths.

Tom
 

LL21

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Dec 26, 2010
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this is what i use. the speaker spikes go into the recess on the top of the spike bases. then you level the speaker by adjusting the spikes. once level they are very very solid and in 4+ years they have stayed very solid.

and not cheap. but the performance gain is well worth it.


Hi Mike, looking into this more seriously now. Any guidance on what kind of improvements you experienced? thanks!
 

Bill Hart

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May 11, 2012
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I added Grand Prix's Apex footers to my Avantgarde Duo's some time ago, sort of a cone with isolation material and an indent at the 'point' where a big ball bearing couples to a matching receptacle mounted into the speaker frame (the speakers are mounted in a metal frame consisting of three 'columns' and the drivers -the two horns and the subwoofer- attach to the 'sides' of this metal frame). It's been a long time since i first installed them, so I can't tell you now what my memory is of the comarison with the stock feet or spikes. But i do recall 'upgrading' the ball bearing to a nitride (?) one that Alvin offers as an option- I believe it is denser- and I recall that this change, at the time, was noticeable to me and a couple of seasoned audio guys who helped me when i made the change. (I use the same footers/ball bearings under the equipment and amp stands). The floor is a newish, rebuilt wooden floor, covered with carpeting.
 

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