Avalon time

**lloydelee21** · 01-10-2012, 04:42 PM

Originally Posted by south

Lloydlee21, thanks for your input and comments. I have read Roy Gregory's review and this is one of the reasons why I am interested in the Eidolon Time since he is one of the very few reviewers that I usually agree with.
The Soulution is not as powerful as the Gryphon (which unfortunately I have never heard), but it doubles the output when the impedance halves form 8 to 4 ohms; in 2 ohms it is slightly less powerful.
I usually listen at about 3 metres form the speakers, and like close listening. My interest in the Eidolon Time is not the possibility of playing louder (I do not listen to very loud music) but in a bit more bass. With the Soulution I realized that the limitation of the Diamond in this area is stornger than I previously thought. Although I am not a bass freak (my tastes are classical music, accoustic jazz and a bit of world music, almost always acoustic) I feel that sometimes the lower notes are less present than they should.
There seems to be a tendency for using double woofers: Wilson (for many years), Magico, TAD, BW, and now Avalon are all doing it. I am interested in understanding wht this trend means, in particular coming from a designer that I admire and respect like Neil Patel.

By the way, what are your speakers?
Many thanks to you all for your interest and comments.

South

Hi South - i run old Wilson X1/Grand Slamms. I run a Velodyne DD18 in parallel, from 41hz down (using a 48db rolloff above 41hz.) The Velodyne set directly on the floor used to be at volume 8 (quite low)...and then upon placing it on an Auralex isolation platform, i ended up finetuning the volume to 32 after the distortion from vibrating the floor was largely taken care of...and thus, i could drive much purer, clean bass to even better integrate with the Wilsons.

At volume 8 (out of 99) on my preamp...or about 80db (dinner-level music)...i can actually feel a nice solid and low gut punch during Nickelback or rock, or even jazz ensembles. Like someone is softly stepping on the kick drum pedal in the room...nice and a lot of fun.

**south** · 01-16-2012, 07:52 AM

Originally Posted by lloydelee21

Hi South - i run old Wilson X1/Grand Slamms. I run a Velodyne DD18 in parallel, from 41hz down (using a 48db rolloff above 41hz.) The Velodyne set directly on the floor used to be at volume 8 (quite low)...and then upon placing it on an Auralex isolation platform, i ended up finetuning the volume to 32 after the distortion from vibrating the floor was largely taken care of...and thus, i could drive much purer, clean bass to even better integrate with the Wilsons.

At volume 8 (out of 99) on my preamp...or about 80db (dinner-level music)...i can actually feel a nice solid and low gut punch during Nickelback or rock, or even jazz ensembles. Like someone is softly stepping on the kick drum pedal in the room...nice and a lot of fun.

Hi Lloydlee,

I am not familiar with the Grand Slamms, but they were the toip model of Wilson a few years ago, right? I am sure they are great. In my experience Wilsons have very good bass. With the subwoofers I am sure you must have a wonderful low end.

I am not at all used to subwoofers. In my limited experience they have always sounded as a further source of issues. The advantages have never compensated the problems that more cables, amps etc., and in particular the positioning of the subs, have brought to the equation. I am afraid they are not an option for me.

The suggestion made by Robert, Bruce and Vassago is interesting. I am sure that my big room would be enough for the Isis, and I am tempted, of course, but they are very expensive and I am afraid that the risk of the Soulution amplifier runnig out of steam is even greater. They are also more bigger and, I guess, more difficult to live with.

Vassago, do you currently have the Isis on your shop in Denmark?

Many thanks to you all for your input.

S.

**JackD201** · 01-16-2012, 10:45 AM

South, there are subwoofers absolutely guaranteed to integrate well with your existing amps and your room size. The catch is that they are part of the Sentinels!

Sorry, the naughty little boy in me couldn't resist this one!

**flez007** · 01-16-2012, 02:30 PM

I had several unsuccesful tries with subwoofers, as South said - sacrifices were too high for me to consider them, until I used the DD18 which have a quite sophisticated tunning sofwtare and tools to match the main soeakers curve and integrate in a better way than trying to accomplish this task by ear.

I am not familiar with subwoofers like WB or JL Audio regarding the use or not of this assisted equalization.

**lloydelee21** · 01-16-2012, 04:07 PM

Originally Posted by flez007

I had several unsuccesful tries with subwoofers, as South said - sacrifices were too high for me to consider them, until I used the DD18 which have a quite sophisticated tunning sofwtare and tools to match the main soeakers curve and integrate in a better way than trying to accomplish this task by ear.

Agree...while i have not tested that many subs (access), i have tried a few, and not found one as precisely adjustable (or easily adjustable) as the DD-18. I fully acknowledge that many, many people have said JL Gothams are far superior (3x the cost and 3x the weight)...and then there's the Thor, and TW Rotator, etc. No doubt, i would love to hear the Gotham and the Thor (and only in a custom built home, the TW)...but for now, i am very pleased and focused on other elements for improvement.

**Robert** · 01-16-2012, 11:56 PM

I suspect you can get some extra mileage from a sub, but Avalon's are champions at holographic imaging from top to bottom when you do it correctly. With the Isis, I clearly hear the double basses to the far right, the kettle drum to the back right, the weight of the violins to the entire left. Choral pieces and organs are full in scale. Off-stage brass and drums (i.e. Mahler) sound uncannily off- stage. I suspect if you are looking for accuracy in weight and positioning for classical music, the crossover with the Isis would be hard to match.

As far as living with large speakers, I was sold on the small footprint for my room and the speaker has presense without overpowering the decor. I have photos on audiogon.

The Time looks great, too. Maybe you can find a demo pair of either to buy if you are in Europe. The Isis would be a 2 step leap, even if you kept the same amp for now. You may wish to explore other amp/preamp possibilities in upcoming years.

**flez007** · 01-17-2012, 10:24 AM

Robert, in my case I left the main speakers running full-range, so the xover worked at its full.

**south** · 01-19-2012, 07:04 AM

Originally Posted by Robert

I suspect you can get some extra mileage from a sub, but Avalon's are champions at holographic imaging from top to bottom when you do it correctly. With the Isis, I clearly hear the double basses to the far right, the kettle drum to the back right, the weight of the violins to the entire left. Choral pieces and organs are full in scale. Off-stage brass and drums (i.e. Mahler) sound uncannily off- stage. I suspect if you are looking for accuracy in weight and positioning for classical music, the crossover with the Isis would be hard to match.

As far as living with large speakers, I was sold on the small footprint for my room and the speaker has presense without overpowering the decor. I have photos on audiogon.

The Time looks great, too. Maybe you can find a demo pair of either to buy if you are in Europe. The Isis would be a 2 step leap, even if you kept the same amp for now. You may wish to explore other amp/preamp possibilities in upcoming years.

Thank, Robert.

I found pictures about your system (I think) on Audiogon. Congratulations, it must be wonderful. I am puzzled as to where you place the Isis. They seem to be on a corner leading two rooms, right? If you prefer I could mail you directly to clarify this.

The fact that you use the big Pass 200 (400 w at 4 ohms) confirms my worries about amplification. But I guess you are right, in a big room like mine the Isis would probably be better than Eidolon Time. Also, there seems to be a certain consensus as to the fact that they are the best loudspeakers tha Avalon currenlty producesI will try to find a place in Europe where I could listen and see both speakers.

Going back to the subwoofer discussion, I do not want to try that alternative because the odds are that the amazing continuity of the Eidolon Diamond, and their capacity to disappear, would certainly be affected. This capacity of disappearing is what, in my experience, sets Avalon apart from, among others, Magico.

Many Thanks

**Robert** · 01-19-2012, 08:33 AM

Hi South,

My speakers are in the corner of an open room. No side walls with which to contend. For some reason, it works very well.

IMO, Avalon has the most cohesive drivers in the business. Even after 3 years, I cannot hear a single driver. It spoils you for other speakers. And after 3 years, I do not think about any another speaker.

The Isis does like power. I suspect your Soulution will do them fine, but perhaps you would want to expand the search in the future. I'm a big fan of the solid state amp and tubed preamp route.

I think the Isis can be a tough nut to crack. I know some people have tried them and moved on. I have felt discouraged at times on the journey. With persistence, I have discovered a system combination which makes me reluctant to tempt fate again. Everything makes a difference - power, cables, fuses, connectors.