The mighty mouse of audio, aka The REL T5 subwoofer

Phelonious Ponk · Jan 15, 2012

I dunno. I know the conventional wisdom is that two subs are better than one, but if the little REL is so well-integrated into your small room that you can't audibly place it or differentiate from your mains at all, yet it is reinforcing deep bass that you can't get with your mains alone....what's to upgrade? That's pretty much the objective for music. I'd spend my money elsewhere.

Tim

DaveyF · Jan 15, 2012

That is a good point Tim. I am not sure that in a room of my size that two T5's will be a significant and worthwhile improvement ( also, I guess it could be a detriment as well if two overload the room). The other day, i was talking to the ARC rep and he suggested the same thing as Ron...which on the face of it makes sense, but I am impressed with the REL's ability to drive the room and plumb the depths....question is could two be smoother??? Possibly, but like you say there are other areas that are more important to me at this point, so the money gets spent there first.

Ron Party · Jan 15, 2012

Davey, what is the size of your room?

mep · Jan 15, 2012

DaveyF said:
That is a good point Tim. I am not sure that in a room of my size that two T5's will be a significant and worthwhile improvement ( also, I guess it could be a detriment as well if two overload the room). The other day, i was talking to the ARC rep and he suggested the same thing as Ron...which on the face of it makes sense, but I am impressed with the REL's ability to drive the room and plumb the depths....question is could two be smoother??? Possibly, but like you say there are other areas that are more important to me at this point, so the money gets spent there first.

i would think that two would be better and the bass would be smoother.

DaveyF · Jan 15, 2012

Ron, the size of my room is a paltry 10' X11'

....the saving grace is that it has a 13' vault ceiling and is dedicated for audio only. Also, it has three exterior walls and a slab floor with carpet over...BUT it is not ideal in any way for anything much more than small speakers and basically nearfield listening.

DaveyF · Jan 21, 2012

To continue with my mini review....One of the problems that I ran into with the T5 is the hook-up to my tube amp.

This particular issue came to my attention from another old timer a'phile, that happened to mention to me that IF I hooked up the REL as per the factory instructions to my ARC tube amp; that I would risk blowing up the tube amp

Why, because my ARC uses the 4ohm tap as a ground and is apparently a balanced design which would create a possible short if i hooked up the REL as per the factory recommendation and as i was doing with my ss amp. So, after calling the REL rep ( Sumiko) and the ARC rep, I was instructed to hook-up the REL in a different manner with the ground cable from the sub going to the 4ohm tap and the positive and negative ( left and right) connection attaching to the 8 ohm taps respectfully on the amp. With a little trepidation, I hooked up the T5 as suggested to the ARC and all is fine.....no explosions so far

To conclude, the REL T5, while being the smallest and least expensive of the new subwoofers from REL is IMO a real winner. With some fiddling, the REL T5 will most likely match with any small-medium size speaker and room. Highly recommended and not too pocket book unfriendly... a rarity in audio these days.

LL21 · Jan 22, 2012

DaveyF said:
To continue with my mini review....One of the problems that I ran into with the T5 is the hook-up to my tube amp.

This particular issue came to my attention from another old timer a'phile, that happened to mention to me that IF I hooked up the REL as per the factory instructions to my ARC tube amp; that I would risk blowing up the tube amp Why, because my ARC uses the 4ohm tap as a ground and is apparently a balanced design which would create a possible short if i hooked up the REL as per the factory recommendation and as i was doing with my ss amp. So, after calling the REL rep ( Sumiko) and the ARC rep, I was instructed to hook-up the REL in a different manner with the ground cable from the sub going to the 4ohm tap and the positive and negative ( left and right) connection attaching to the 8 ohm taps respectfully on the amp. With a little trepidation, I hooked up the T5 as suggested to the ARC and all is fine.....no explosions so far

To conclude, the REL T5, while being the smallest and least expensive of the new subwoofers from REL is IMO a real winner. With some fiddling, the REL T5 will most likely match with any small-medium size speaker and room. Highly recommended and not too pocket book unfriendly... a rarity in audio these days.

Great read! Thanks!

dafos · Jul 24, 2012

Davey, just noticed this thread belatedly now. Are you still using just one sub? In my case, while two seems to have smoothened out the bass response, I'm not quite convinced so I decided to just stick to one in the meantime.

DaveyF · Jul 24, 2012

dafos said:
Davey, just noticed this thread belatedly now. Are you still using just one sub? In my case, while two seems to have smoothened out the bass response, I'm not quite convinced so I decided to just stick to one in the meantime.

Dafos, I'm still using one sub. I think it is all I need in my VERY small room. I was listening tonight to Grover Washington Jr, Winelight LP on Nautilus and the sub was great for this music. Only problem is that this LP now sounds digital to me....never used to

dafos · Jul 24, 2012

Davey, I note with interest that the T5 xover has a fixed 12db slope, a choice that I disregarded in favor of the JL's steeper 24 db option, in large part influenced by Jonathan Valins review of the Torus subs which he mated to the Mini using a 24db slope at 33-37hz. I experimented with the 12 db slope and with careful adjustments to cover frequency and volume levels, I have to admit that it was foolish of me to have concluded that the 24 db slope would be the best choice based on a review of a different sub based system in a different room. With the steeper slope I sometimes noticed that, with certain material, there was a subtle but noticeable "hole" between the subs and the monitors, which gap the 12 db slope seems to patch to create a more seamless transition. But as I said, I'm still experimenting and I have to say playing around with all the xover options has been a very educational experience on the fine balancing act required to create a satisfactory and seamless transition from monitors to subs.

DaveyF · Jul 24, 2012

Dafos, I think that the steeper slope will on some material potentially give rise to a "hole" effect. I had noticed that in a friends sub when I auditioned his system. However, that's not the reason that I went with the T5. Instead, I wanted a sub that wouldn't risk overdriving the room and one that was quick on its feet. The GH's are lighting fast in their response time and I didn't want to risk losing that magic. Even with the T5, I do feel that there is a smidgeon less mid magic in the portrayal, BUT it is made up for with the rest of the spectrum. I guess one cannot have it all! One of the things that does bother me most with other systems I have heard that use subs and minis, is any "hole" in the transition....to me that always is VERY noticeable. Luckily, after much experimentation that isn't an issue for me with the T5.

Phelonious Ponk · Jul 24, 2012

I want one.

Tim

mep · Jul 24, 2012

dafos said:
Davey, I note with interest that the T5 xover has a fixed 12db slope, a choice that I disregarded in favor of the JL's steeper 24 db option, in large part influenced by Jonathan Valins review of the Torus subs which he mated to the Mini using a 24db slope at 33-37hz. I experimented with the 12 db slope and with careful adjustments to cover frequency and volume levels, I have to admit that it was foolish of me to have concluded that the 24 db slope would be the best choice based on a review of a different sub based system in a different room. With the steeper slope I sometimes noticed that, with certain material, there was a subtle but noticeable "hole" between the subs and the monitors, which gap the 12 db slope seems to patch to create a more seamless transition. But as I said, I'm still experimenting and I have to say playing around with all the xover options has been a very educational experience on the fine balancing act required to create a satisfactory and seamless transition from monitors to subs.

If you have a "hole" with a 24dB slope, doesn't that tell you that your crossing over the sub too low for your main speakers? Lots of monitors have no real output below 60 Hz and if you are trying to set the sub crossover to below 40 Hz with a 24 dB crossover, it will be 24 dB down at one octave above your crossover point.

FrantzM · Jul 24, 2012

mep said:
If you have a "hole" with a 24dB slope, doesn't that tell you that your crossing over the sub too low for your main speakers? Lots of monitors have no real output below 60 Hz and if you are trying to set the sub crossover to below 40 Hz with a 24 dB crossover, it will be 24 dB down at one octave above your crossover point.

Hi

I would recommend two subs.. It affords you a smoother FR, paradoxically the smaller the room the better the results with two-subs. I have countless of times posted about my preference for multi-subs. It is not a matter of only output but of smoothness of response. Good bass is firstly about getting a smooth response.
Second the crossover point frequency is as important too and so is the phase control... It is very important to play with al these parameters: Position of subs with respect to mains, Crossover frequency, High and low pass point i the subs have these and the phase control... all play a role in the final sound. When the subs are properly dialed in even the highs become clearer ...Often the discontinuity the impression of "hole" the "slow" bass phenomenon a misnomer by the way is caused by improper subwoofer settings (or insufficient flexibility of subwoofers controls) .. Too low a crossover point with a monitor that does NOT truly plumbs the low freq may create this "hole"
Doing all this by ear is do-able but to have a better starting point I would recommend to use a software to measure your FR in the low. The learning curve is frankly rather steep but it is worth it. Room EQ Wizard REW for shortm is a free, feature-laden software that would help you in this department .. Total cost if you add a decent calibrated measurement microphone and Sound card would run you less than $200. If you're press hard will cost you less than $150: Card about $75 + Microphone $75 or so, REW is free.

dafos · Jul 25, 2012

To everyone, thanks for the feedback!

Robh3606 · Jul 25, 2012

If you are using a L/R 24dB crossover all you have to do to avoid a hole is use the spec -6dB point of your monitors as the crossover point. If you do that it will sum properly providing your -6dB point doesn't coincide with any room modes

Rob

rbbert · Jul 25, 2012

Did I miss the part of this thread where the choice of one T5 (only) was discussed? With the rest of the OP's system, I would have thought at least a couple of T7's or one R328 or R528 would have more consistent?

rblnr · Jul 25, 2012

I've used a REL 505 for years with ATC 20-2 actives -- makes for a really nice system.. I run it using a TacT mini doing the crossover, which I then tweaked the XO curve based on some measurements using XTZ. I always find the phase to be the most 'underrated' parameter to nail -- your seat can easily be in a null, but a slight phase change (or position change of the sub) will mitigate it.

DaveyF · Jul 25, 2012

rbbert said:
Did I miss the part of this thread where the choice of one T5 (only) was discussed? With the rest of the OP's system, I would have thought at least a couple of T7's or one R328 or R528 would have more consistent?

Rob, I considered the T7, but in my VERY small room, it was possible that this sub would overdrive the room too easily. One can turn down the volume, but I think by doing that too much, you risk throwing out the baby with the bathwater. ( Strange old saying, did anyone actually do that in the old days, LOL

)

DaveyF · Oct 21, 2013

Update... I now own two REL T5's. I bought the second one to go primarily with my HT set up after my PSB sub blew up. However, this also gives me the opportunity to try the second sub with my audio only system. Should be interesting to see what the gains are ( if any).

The mighty mouse of audio, aka The REL T5 subwoofer

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