New Merrill Turntable is this the biggest breakthrough in turntable design yet?

audiodoctor

New Member
Aug 16, 2010
13
1
1
Hey guys,

I just read the Dagogo review and the French Review of the new Merrill Williams Turntable, both of these reviews were raves.

The Dagogo reviewer relegated his trusty VPI TNT to the closet and the French Reviewer was equally impressed.

Has anyone here heard the table? According to Mr. Merrill the new Table at roughly $7,000.00 outperforms his older $24,000.00 Merill/Scalia MS 21 table which Stereophile gave a Class A rating.

I owned an original Merill Turntable in the eighties and George's design way back in 1982 predated almost every major turntable manufacturers adoption of many of Merill's concepts which he pioneered in the Heirloom:

He was one of the first guys to use acrylic for a platter.
to use a damped mat embedded into the platter
to use an outer damping ring and central clamp
to use a sophisticated outboard digital speed controller
to use a global view of energy management and dissipation in a turntable
to use a fluid damped motor
to use a polymer pulley

The original Heirloom was way ahead of its time, if you think back to 1982 the most popular table was the Linn LP 12, I don't think VPI was even started in 1982.

The new REAL Turntable uses a plinth made out of a rubber composite laminate that George claim's absorbs all the vibrational energy and turns it into heat by the energy absorbing plinth, creating a level of sound quality never before possible by using conventional materials.

All I can say after reading the website is this makes 100% sense and more mass and more money thrown at the problem may make it worse than this brilliant and simple rethinking of vinyl playback.

I ordered a table, what do you guys think?
 

Steve Williams

Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
I think it sounds very interesting. I am most anxious to get your impressions after you've had it up and running for a while in your system

Where did you order from or is it factory direct.

What arm did you get for it
 

audiodoctor

New Member
Aug 16, 2010
13
1
1
Merrill Willaims Turntable

Dear Steve,

I am a retailer so yes I am buying it directly from the company, Merrill Williams is a brand new company with very few dealers at present.

I am a big fan of George Merrill's work the Heirloom I owned in the eighties I had for almost 15 years till I got a Roksan Xerexes 10 in 1996.

This is the first new turntable I have owned in quite a while, I was so taken by the brilliance of this design I went ahead and ordered one without listening first, which is something I don't normally do. I can say after looking at the design brief is I am shocked that it took this long before someone came with such a radically simple concept, all turntables that I know of employ hard metals which are then externally damped or not damped at all ie mass loaded designs, or somewhat softer materials such as acrylic, which are softer than hard metals but still have a resonant signature.

I will let you know after I receive the table, but I can honestly tell you I haven't been this excited by a turntable design in years.
 

MylesBAstor

Well-Known Member
Apr 20, 2010
11,236
80
1,725
New York City
Hey guys,

I just read the Dagogo review and the French Review of the new Merrill Williams Turntable, both of these reviews were raves.

The Dagogo reviewer relegated his trusty VPI TNT to the closet and the French Reviewer was equally impressed.

Has anyone here heard the table? According to Mr. Merrill the new Table at roughly $7,000.00 outperforms his older $24,000.00 Merill/Scalia MS 21 table which Stereophile gave a Class A rating.

I owned an original Merill Turntable in the eighties and George's design way back in 1982 predated almost every major turntable manufacturers adoption of many of Merill's concepts which he pioneered in the Heirloom:

He was one of the first guys to use acrylic for a platter.
to use a damped mat embedded into the platter
to use an outer damping ring and central clamp
to use a sophisticated outboard digital speed controller
to use a global view of energy management and dissipation in a turntable
to use a fluid damped motor
to use a polymer pulley

The original Heirloom was way ahead of its time, if you think back to 1982 the most popular table was the Linn LP 12, I don't think VPI was even started in 1982.

The new REAL Turntable uses a plinth made out of a rubber composite laminate that George claim's absorbs all the vibrational energy and turns it into heat by the energy absorbing plinth, creating a level of sound quality never before possible by using conventional materials.

All I can say after reading the website is this makes 100% sense and more mass and more money thrown at the problem may make it worse than this brilliant and simple rethinking of vinyl playback.

I ordered a table, what do you guys think?

VPI has been around for 30 years.

Everybody has their own claims and the proof is in the pudding. You didn't say which model TNT the reviewer was using--besides which, the TNT is hardly VPI's best table; the best being the version I have or the Classic 3. (and these are both in the same price range as the Merrill plus they come with the arm while I suspect the Merrill price is w/o arm.) Plus didn't Fremer just rave about the Classic 3 and how close it came, at 10X less price, to his Contimuum?

Since I didn't see the review, did the reviewer use the same arm and cartridge on both tables? If not, one doesn't know what's doing what.
 

MylesBAstor

Well-Known Member
Apr 20, 2010
11,236
80
1,725
New York City
Hey guys,

I just read the Dagogo review and the French Review of the new Merrill Williams Turntable, both of these reviews were raves.

The Dagogo reviewer relegated his trusty VPI TNT to the closet and the French Reviewer was equally impressed.

Has anyone here heard the table? According to Mr. Merrill the new Table at roughly $7,000.00 outperforms his older $24,000.00 Merill/Scalia MS 21 table which Stereophile gave a Class A rating.

I owned an original Merill Turntable in the eighties and George's design way back in 1982 predated almost every major turntable manufacturers adoption of many of Merill's concepts which he pioneered in the Heirloom:

He was one of the first guys to use acrylic for a platter.
to use a damped mat embedded into the platter
to use an outer damping ring and central clamp
to use a sophisticated outboard digital speed controller
to use a global view of energy management and dissipation in a turntable
to use a fluid damped motor
to use a polymer pulley

The original Heirloom was way ahead of its time, if you think back to 1982 the most popular table was the Linn LP 12, I don't think VPI was even started in 1982.

The new REAL Turntable uses a plinth made out of a rubber composite laminate that George claim's absorbs all the vibrational energy and turns it into heat by the energy absorbing plinth, creating a level of sound quality never before possible by using conventional materials.

All I can say after reading the website is this makes 100% sense and more mass and more money thrown at the problem may make it worse than this brilliant and simple rethinking of vinyl playback.

I ordered a table, what do you guys think?

Also methacrylate has its own sound something that I can say having heard platters made out of very different materials and constructs, on my VPI.
 

audiodoctor

New Member
Aug 16, 2010
13
1
1
Dear Myles,

You raise some good points but here is my rebuttal:

Merrill's Heirloom was way more advanced than VPI's first table which I do believe was the HW 19. Also Merrill was building turntables before the Heirloom came into being. The first Heirloom was built in 1979 but didn't get into too many dealers hands until 1982. Check out Merrill's engineering firsts on his website and see if you don't agree that his concepts were way ahead of his time.

As per the comments on the reviewers testing procedures contact Ray Seda, who has reviewed many tables so he should know what he is taking about, Ray Seda called the Merrill REAL table a game changer I will see for myself if that is true, I am however, a believer that a design which should be superior in many times if executed properly is.

As per the TNT vs the Classic Three, I think the TNT is still considered a better sounding table than the Classic. As per a shoot out between the two tables by sheer concept alone the Merrill should destroy any table that VPI or most companies makes. The Classic is a multi layer plinth with all hard materials, where is the energy supposed to go?

Don't get me wrong I am a fan of Harry's work I think the Merrill REAL could be the first major true breakthrough in turntable design in many years.
 

MylesBAstor

Well-Known Member
Apr 20, 2010
11,236
80
1,725
New York City
Dear Myles,

You raise some good points but here is my rebuttal:

Merrill's Heirloom was way more advanced than VPI's first table which I do believe was the HW 19. Also Merrill was building turntables before the Heirloom came into being. The first Heirloom was built in 1979 but didn't get into too many dealers hands until 1982. Check out Merrill's engineering firsts on his website and see if you don't agree that his concepts were way ahead of his time.

As per the comments on the reviewers testing procedures contact Ray Seda, who has reviewed many tables so he should know what he is taking about, Ray Seda called the Merrill REAL table a game changer I will see for myself if that is true, I am however, a believer that a design which should be superior in many times if executed properly is.

As per the TNT vs the Classic Three, I think the TNT is still considered a better sounding table than the Classic. As per a shoot out between the two tables by sheer concept alone the Merrill should destroy any table that VPI or most companies makes. The Classic is a multi layer plinth with all hard materials, where is the energy supposed to go?

Don't get me wrong I am a fan of Harry's work I think the Merrill REAL could be the first major true breakthrough in turntable design in many years.

Dave, do you think any turntable designer worth their salt in the last 20 years hasn't been cognizant of the issue of dealing with the energy created at the stylus/groove interface? I remember talking to Bob Graham about it fifteen years ago. I remember talking to Jonathan Carr about it at the same time. Much has to do with out of phase reflections from the resonances created during analog playback. BTW, SME talked about it decades ago. And you tell me that Spiral Groove, Continuum, Rockport (now this was an engineering feat), Dobbins, Linn, EAR, Goldmund, Wave Kinetics, etc, haven't made breakthroughs in their own way?

I finally read the review too. Ray did not state which version of the TNT he was talking about except he's modified his (which also raises questions too). He also did not, as far as I can see, use the same arm on both turntables. I'll withhold any comment on what I think given I'm in the industry.

As far as the VPI table line goes, the Classic 3 is indeed HW's best table at the moment (not that Harry doesn't have something new up his sleeve) and if you remember, HP gave it an exceedingly rare five stars (and he's had every table that HW has ever made at Sea Cliff). And I have to say, that having read HP for years and understanding his preferences and system, is high praise indeed.

Now I'm not saying the Merrill isn't a good table; it's just that I've been in the industry for way too long and seen lots of hyperbole over and over again; rarely, if ever, does it pan out.

Finally, I think we can debate the issue of the early Merrill vs. VPI and in the end which was more succesful. VPI went down a new path while Merrill worked on the old Linn principles and with it, all its inherent problems.
 
Last edited:

audiodoctor

New Member
Aug 16, 2010
13
1
1
arm for REAL

Steve,

I will be using a Basis Vector Three initially afterwards I am looking at

The latest Graham
The Morch
The Triplanner
Kuzma Four Point
 

mmakshak

Well-Known Member
May 1, 2011
38
0
391
S.F. Bay Area
I would like to point out that Merrill has another turntable coming out soon. It has similiar concepts, but is much cheaper. Maybe this isn't the place to mention it, but could it be used as a second TT(It might be called "Encounter".)?
 

audiodoctor

New Member
Aug 16, 2010
13
1
1
hype vs reality

Hey Myles,

Like you I h.ave been doing this for a long, long, time over 25 years professionally. I have sold and listened to almost every major table in the industry. Your comments on through energy dissipation in the design of most major tables is just not accurate. There is a difference in talking about it and doing it. Most high mass tables are primitive designs with isolation being provided by sheer weight and constrained mode damping.

If you look at most suspended designs they are all using reflective materials, such as metal or a softer plastic acrylic with a damping system of springs, or rubber o rings. Please tell me in this type of design how is energy coming off the plinth being dealt with? An SME table is a big flat sheet of heavy metal which is being isolated on rubber o rings. Most plastic acrylic tables the thickness and density of the acrylic absorbs some of the energy as acrylic is a soft plastic, but if you tap on it you still get a sense of ringing, damped but it still rings.

I have studied turntable design for years, and when I saw the concept of the Merrill Real I was blown away, the greater the surface area of the plinth the more energy absorption you have if you have a plinth that is not reflective to the energy that is being presented to the system. In Merrill's design you are situating anything that can vibrate on a giant energy sponge, the rubber plinth. Can you tell me that this is not an ideal way to deal with micro and macro movements of energy?

My only issue with the Merrill's design is that the top sheet is still a hard material a sheet of aluminum although at the thickness of the sheet it may be permeable by the frequencies being presented to it.

I have to agree with you that the review methodology may not have been ideal, but it may also be that the arm and cart on the reviewers table were far more expensive than the Merrill setup and even under these conditions the Merrill outperformed the VPI.

Come over and hear one for yourself and then you can decide.
 

mmakshak

Well-Known Member
May 1, 2011
38
0
391
S.F. Bay Area
Did anyone get a chance to hear this turntable at California Audio Show 2012? I got there too late. I believe it was in the room with TAD(?) speakers from Pioneer.
 

Odyno

Well-Known Member
Dec 27, 2011
221
3
925
Near Montreal Canada
Besides being one of the ugliest on the market.

Did any of you had a chance to listen to it ?
Did you compare de beast to another one that we may know.
What did stand out of that comparison?
 

audioarcher

Well-Known Member
May 6, 2012
1,396
51
970
Seattle area
Nice commercial Audiodoctor. This wouldn't happen to be Audiooracle from Agon would it? I have to at least give you credit for eventually disclosing you are a Merrill dealer.

When actual customers start raving about it's sound I might give it some credence. Will it be shown at RMAF?
 

kach22i

WBF Founding Member
Apr 21, 2010
1,591
210
1,635
Ann Arbor, Michigan
www.kachadoorian.com
Besides being one of the ugliest on the market.
I'm glad that I'm not the only one who noticed the lack of attractive Industrial Design on this unit.

My position on this topic is long standing; at a certain price point just about everything is going to sound good. So you might as well select the prettiest because you are going to have to look at it as well as listen to it.
 

PeterA

Well-Known Member
Dec 6, 2011
12,485
10,629
3,515
USA
I'd rather hear from someone who is not a dealer. His comments regarding how SME tables deal with energy make me wonder if he's ever heard an SME table. Isolation and dealing with energy, both internal and external to the system, are two areas in which the SME 20 and 30 excel.
 

audioarcher

Well-Known Member
May 6, 2012
1,396
51
970
Seattle area
I heard it at RMAF this year. I only stayed for a couple of songs. It was not doing anything really wrong that I could tell. The system was not drawing me in though. Can't be sure if that was the tables fault.

The looks are lacking. The feet are butt ugly. If they changed the look of the feet at least it would not be objectionable.
 

About us

  • What’s Best Forum is THE forum for high end audio, product reviews, advice and sharing experiences on the best of everything else. This is THE place where audiophiles and audio companies discuss vintage, contemporary and new audio products, music servers, music streamers, computer audio, digital-to-analog converters, turntables, phono stages, cartridges, reel-to-reel tape machines, speakers, headphones and tube and solid-state amplification. Founded in 2010 What’s Best Forum invites intelligent and courteous people of all interests and backgrounds to describe and discuss the best of everything. From beginners to life-long hobbyists to industry professionals, we enjoy learning about new things and meeting new people, and participating in spirited debates.

Quick Navigation

User Menu

Steve Williams
Site Founder | Site Owner | Administrator
Ron Resnick
Site Co-Owner | Administrator
Julian (The Fixer)
Website Build | Marketing Managersing