What speaker for what music?

fas42

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Frank, you know what I pass on -- your tweaks. We agree that minimizing noise and distortion enhances improves imaging. We disagree on how to minimize noise and distortion.

Tim
Which is a very, very great pity for you, and others. There's all that gear out there, costing a small fortune, which could sound dramatically better, brilliant in fact, if only somehow it could be knocked into shape. Just about every other industry on earth knows that getting high quality elements connected togther in some physical way is only the start of producing an optimum solution, that one then has to spend time and effort in refining and understanding the subtle factors that influence the finer behaviours -- just imagine if the air force believed that you could buy instrumentation from one supplier, an airframe from another and the engine from a third, just bolt it together and it would work perfectly. Yeah, right ...

But of course, as everyone knows, high end audio is immune from those considerations ... :b

Frank
 

Phelonious Ponk

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Which is a very, very great pity for you, and others. There's all that gear out there, costing a small fortune, which could sound dramatically better, brilliant in fact, if only somehow it could be knocked into shape. Just about every other industry on earth knows that getting high quality elements connected togther in some physical way is only the start of producing an optimum solution, that one then has to spend time and effort in refining and understanding the subtle factors that influence the finer behaviours -- just imagine if the air force believed that you could buy instrumentation from one supplier, an airframe from another and the engine from a third, just bolt it together and it would work perfectly. Yeah, right ...

But of course, as everyone knows, high end audio is immune from those considerations ... :b

Frank

As you know, I don't have this piecemeal issue to deal with, but even if I weren't into integrated active systems, I'd be into integrated systems - electronic components from the same, quality manufacturer, with an output impedance designed to play well with all but the nuttiest of speakers it its power range. I have chosen the most integrated, pre-synergized solution available, a complete system, from source to drivers, designed and integrated by an actual, practicing audio engineer who put in the "time and effort in refining and understanding the subtle factors that influence the finer behaviours" of this product and many others of very high quality. I'm good, thanks.

Tim
 

fas42

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I have chosen the most integrated, pre-synergized solution available, a complete system, from source to drivers, designed and integrated by an actual, practicing audio engineer who put in the "time and effort in refining and understanding the subtle factors that influence the finer behaviours" of this product and many others of very high quality. I'm good, thanks.

Tim
And a good choice it was too, going by comments about the same gear by others a distance away from WBF. What "surprises" me, to some degree, is that it doesn't seem to generate higher volume levels with convincing dynamics; that's at least going by what your comments on this forum so far seem to suggest ...

Frank
 

Phelonious Ponk

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And a good choice it was too, going by comments about the same gear by others a distance away from WBF. What "surprises" me, to some degree, is that it doesn't seem to generate higher volume levels with convincing dynamics; that's at least going by what your comments on this forum so far seem to suggest ...

Frank

Can't imagine what those comments could have been, but they go much louder, and have much better dynamics than I have a right to expect of them, given their diminutive size.

Tim
 

fas42

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Can't imagine what those comments could have been, but they go much louder, and have much better dynamics than I have a right to expect of them, given their diminutive size.

Tim
Their size should be no problem, as mentioned many times before by myself this only impacts bass, they still should be able to go to ear splitting volumes without significant problems. You have at least 10dB real volume headroom over my setup, so should be able to shame what my HT can do. But you say what I "claim" is impossible: yet your audio gear has a better chance of achieving what I talk about, straight out the packing boxes, then the majority of people here, hence my comment on your comments ...

Frank
 

Phelonious Ponk

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Their size should be no problem, as mentioned many times before by myself this only impacts bass, they still should be able to go to ear splitting volumes without significant problems. You have at least 10dB real volume headroom over my setup, so should be able to shame what my HT can do. But you say what I "claim" is impossible: yet your audio gear has a better chance of achieving what I talk about, straight out the packing boxes, then the majority of people here, hence my comment on your comments ...

Frank

We're just dancing on that fine line between perception and reality, Frank, and your suspension of disbelief is more powerful than mine.

Tim
 

fas42

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We're just dancing on that fine line between perception and reality, Frank, and your suspension of disbelief is more powerful than mine.

Tim
Guess we're back to square one then ...

Just to go into the SPL side of things, I worked out at one point that your system will go to around 115dB at 1 metre before clipping, if the manufacturer's spec's are truthful, and to put things into perspective, an orchestra in the 4th row peaks at 105dB, courtesy of Basspig. Hence you've got 10dB headroom to get it right; so if it's not working for you there's a problem somewhere ...

Frank
 

DaveyF

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Jul 31, 2010
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I hate to intercede into this conversation:) BUT just so I am getting the full picture here... Tim is still using a " cheap Panasonic receiver"- his words, and Frank is still using a one-piece set up based around a "severely mangled Philips DVD receiver"- his words....am I correct here guys?:eek:

Inquiring minds need to know:D

BTW, IF this is so, then all I can say is MORE power to you guys and don't ever let anyone say that music reproduction isn't in the ear of the beholder:):)
 

fas42

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I hate to intercede into this conversation:) BUT just so I am getting the full picture here... Tim is still using a " cheap Panasonic receiver"- his words, and Frank is still using a one-piece set up based around a "severely mangled Philips DVD receiver"- his words....am I correct here guys?:eek:

Inquiring minds need to know:D

BTW, IF this is so, then all I can say is MORE power to you guys and don't ever let anyone say that music reproduction isn't in the ear of the beholder:):)
A "yep" from me, it would be a "no" from Tim unless that item houses his headphone amp, I think :b. Remember, part of this is about the first watt being a good one; 95% of people's listening is at this level, and all equipment can do at least such power reasonably well into a speaker. The next trick is to improve the quality of that first watt, which what all you people do, and what I have done. The final step is to have the system maintain that quality right up to the limits of the amp's working range, which is what I've also done, and this is where I part ways with Tim -- he doesn't believe such things are possible.

Frank
 

garylkoh

WBF Technical Expert (Speakers & Audio Equipment)
Sep 6, 2010
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www.genesisloudspeakers.com
turbulence! :)

That's right. Thanks, Jack for answering Frank's question. It's more commonly studied with ports, but turbulence manifests even in the mid-bass. I haven't read any reports or studies of turbulence in midrange/tweeters.
 

fas42

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That's right. Thanks, Jack for answering Frank's question. It's more commonly studied with ports, but turbulence manifests even in the mid-bass. I haven't read any reports or studies of turbulence in midrange/tweeters.
Well, Jack and Gary, I'm sorry to say I'm none the wiser: tried Googling "turbulence distortion speaker driver" and in the first 50 hits there wasn't a single one about the driver being a problem. As expected, the vast majority talked of port behaviour, some of air leaks, and others of baffle smoothness. So I'm baffled!!

Thanks for the responses (I thought Jack's was an intentional joke ...), but I think I might need a actual, direct link to get me going ...

Thanks,
Frank
 

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