Magico Q7

Alrainbow · Nov 2, 2014

I do understand the drums as an acute example of tubes a SS Amps. But just having a little tube sound as in a doc or preamp does seem to add magic to most systems. Even with headphones lie an hd800 or stax 009 the sound of tubes is obvious when comparing the same chain but subbing tubes. For me the best tube sound is the least tube sound .
Al

microstrip · Nov 2, 2014

FrantzM said:
+1

I would also add that the best SS are as good in the midrange and in that sense are much less one-trick ponies than their tubes counterparts. IMHO, the best SS have reached what tubes used to do best.

Can you tell us the details of those best SS that in your opinion have achieved such prowess?

microstrip · Nov 2, 2014

number95 said:
(...) That said, tube amps also have come along way. The current best tube amps have less coloration if any and much better transient response n control.

Alrainbow said:
(...) For me the best tube sound is the least tube sound .
Al

Good points. Most people still thing about the negative aspects of tube amplifiers of the 70's and 80´s. My introduction to the new way of looking to tubes was due to two amplifiers - the conrad johnson MV125 with the transpectral transformers that used only film capacitors, even in the power supply, and the OTL Atmasphere MA-50, later the MA-2 mk2. IMHO these two designs of the early 90's were a big change compared to the sound I was used to listen using tubes.

stereo · Nov 2, 2014

PeterA said:
I think it is quite interesting that when Alon Wolf showed his Ultimate 3 horn design and needed only a few watts to drive this massive speaker, that he decided on low powered Solid State amps designed by Nelson Pass. He stated ultra low noise as the reason. He also used a SS pre amp.

SS amps have indeed come a long way.

keep in mind that the Ultimate are between 115 and 120dB sensitivity (depending on which channel), which is much more than most other horns. Finding an amplifier which is quiet enough is not an easy task. Typically it needs to have unitary voltage gain. We have tried a lot of the great sounding amps: while they are virtually silent on a "normal" speaker, you realize they are noisy on something like the Ultimate. The First Watt is completely silent and sounds well. They are a few others which work very well also.

stereo · Nov 2, 2014

microstrip said:
Can you tell us the details of those best SS that in your opinion have achieved such prowess?

Dartzeel 108 and 458, Vitus SIA025 and SM011 (find them better than the bigger Vitus amps), latest Soulution 700 serie (with an amazing bass on the top), Technical Brain, the latest Gryphons...

As you can see, most are class A designs....

PeterA · Nov 2, 2014

stereo said:
Dartzeel 108 and 458, Vitus SIA025 and SM011 (find them better than the bigger Vitus amps), latest Soulution 700 serie (with an amazing bass on the top), Technical Brain, the latest Gryphons...

As you can see, most are class A designs....

Stereo, What do you think of the new Pass XS amps? They are Class A and some of the early watts are single ended Class A.

Roysen · Nov 3, 2014

PeterA said:
Stereo, What do you think of the new Pass XS amps? They are Class A and some of the early watts are single ended Class A.

I would think the very low distortion of the Telos amplifiers from Goldmund also fits the requirements from stereo.

In my mind a fast amplifier are as important as a quite, low distorted and powerful amplifier. In this regard SS designs have an advantage over Tube designs. There is one clear exception though and that is Atma-Sphere. They are faster than most SS designs too.

In that regard I have a question. What SS designs to drive the bass would be fast enough to play with a pair of Atma-Sphere MA2 or MA3 for the midrange/treble in a bi-amplified system. Soulution, Spectral and Goldmund Telos come to mind but I am not sure. What about bi-amping my Q7 with Atma-Sphere MA3 for the top and Soulution 701 for the bass?

PeterA · Nov 3, 2014

Roysen said:
I would think the very low distortion of the Telos amplifiers from Goldmund also fits the requirements from stereo.

In my mind a fast amplifier are as important as a quite, low distorted and powerful amplifier. In this regard SS designs have an advantage over Tube designs. There is one clear exception though and that is Atma-Sphere. They are faster than most SS designs too.

In that regard I have a question. What SS designs to drive the bass would be fast enough to play with a pair of Atma-Sphere MA2 or MA3 for the midrange/treble in a bi-amplified system. Soulution, Spectral and Goldmund Telos come to mind but I am not sure. What about bi-amping my Q7 with Atma-Sphere MA3 for the top and Soulution 701 for the bass?

Interesting question. I have not heard of Atma-Sphere being used with Magico. Have you asked your distributor or contacted Magico for advice on bi-amping your Q7?

stereo · Nov 3, 2014

Roysen said:
I would think the very low distortion of the Telos amplifiers from Goldmund also fits the requirements from stereo.

In my mind a fast amplifier are as important as a quite, low distorted and powerful amplifier. In this regard SS designs have an advantage over Tube designs. There is one clear exception though and that is Atma-Sphere. They are faster than most SS designs too.

In that regard I have a question. What SS designs to drive the bass would be fast enough to play with a pair of Atma-Sphere MA2 or MA3 for the midrange/treble in a bi-amplified system. Soulution, Spectral and Goldmund Telos come to mind but I am not sure. What about bi-amping my Q7 with Atma-Sphere MA3 for the top and Soulution 701 for the bass?

I have personally not heard better bass than latest Soulution amps. This is where they really shine

Bruce B · Nov 3, 2014

microstrip said:
Mike,

The very best powerful tube amps have a special way of doing also large scale music, such as a large symphonic orchestra or a large chorus. And it is not only theyT holographic aspect of voices and such, it is mostly in the the absence of electronics artifacts that allows the music to sound less as a mechanical reproduction and more like live event.

But yes, you have a point about SS in drums - it was why I excluded them in my original post. And you ending comment is very true!

There is nothing wrong with the way the big VTL Siegfrieds do drums. They can hang with any big SS amp on large scale music.

LL21 · Nov 3, 2014

Bruce B said:
There is nothing wrong with the way the big VTL Siegfrieds do drums. They can hang with any big SS amp on large scale music.

+1 in my limited experience hearing 2 sets of Siegfried II monos in an Arrakis 2 system which had exceptionally good drums on Nirvana Unplugged.

microstrip · Nov 3, 2014

stereo said:
Dartzeel 108 and 458, Vitus SIA025 and SM011 (find them better than the bigger Vitus amps), latest Soulution 700 serie (with an amazing bass on the top), Technical Brain, the latest Gryphons...

As you can see, most are class A designs....

Stereo,

I still own the 108 and have listened to the 458 , the Soulution 700's and latest Gryphons.They are great amplifiers, but IMHO noway they approach the realism of tubes in the midrange in same types of acoustic and vocal music. Curiously IMHO digital benefits a lot from tubes. As they say - YMMV.

microstrip · Nov 3, 2014

Bruce B said:
There is nothing wrong with the way the big VTL Siegfrieds do drums. They can hang with any big SS amp on large scale music.

Well, I has never invited chez les Wilson...

And yes, even my old VTL MB750 mono blocks sound fantastic on large scale Mahler or Shostakovitch.

cannata · Nov 3, 2014

microstrip said:
..., but IMHO noway they approach the realism of tubes in the midrange in same types of acoustic and vocal music. Curiously IMHO digital benefits a lot from tubes. As they say - YMMV.

It is called euphonica. Can be helpful with a mediocre midrange performance. I don’t believe Magico will benefit from it.

andromedaaudio · Nov 3, 2014

I agree with microstrip/bruce , with the right pairing and high quality tubes you can have outstanding bass , another comes to mind is Octave jubilee, they are quit costly to maintain however some of these poweramp s.
Remember the 9600 are something like 70 or 90 watts , and the Q 7 is a large speaker which benefits from quite a lot of control i think

number95 · Nov 4, 2014

cannata said:
It is called euphonica. Can be helpful with a mediocre midrange performance. I don’t believe Magico will benefit from it.

That is absurd.

cannata · Nov 4, 2014

number95 said:
That is absurd.

wait till you get your M-Pro

nirodha · Nov 4, 2014

andromedaaudio said:
I ve heard Q 7 on 9600 monos and it sounded very good albeit maybe a little lean in the low bass , could be that the bass would be better on more powerfull (transistor ) amps i dont know

Haha...we were probably at the same show and I had / have never heard anything better in my life! (Rhapsody Hilversum?)

andromedaaudio · Nov 4, 2014

Yes it was probably the same show , it was also in my top of listening expiriences , hard to say best i ve heard though

Roysen · Nov 4, 2014

andromedaaudio said:
I agree with microstrip/bruce , with the right pairing and high quality tubes you can have outstanding bass , another comes to mind is Octave jubilee, they are quit costly to maintain however some of these poweramp s.
Remember the 9600 are something like 70 or 90 watts , and the Q 7 is a large speaker which benefits from quite a lot of control i think

THere are quite a few high power tube designs out there too. So plenty of choices to choose from. Among others:
- Tube Researdch Labs Platinum Golden Triode Reference 800 Mono Amplifiers
- Jadis JA-800¨
- Atma-Sphere MA-3 MK.3.2
- Conrad Johnson ART
- Audio Research Reference 750
- VTL Siegfried Series 2
- Convergent Audio Technologies JL3 Statement
- Joule Electra VAN-350 Destiny
- Octave Research Jubilee Mono
- Tenor Audio 350M Haute Puissance
- Audio Power Labs 833 TNT
- VAC Statement 450
- Shoreline 800
- Balanced Audio Technologies REX II
- Pathos Acoustics Adrenaline
- Carver Audio Silver 900
- Graaf GM400
- Ayon Audio Orthos XS
- Ypsilon Electronics SET-100 Ultimate
- LAMM Industries M2.2
- KR Audio Kronzilla DXL
- Wavac Audio SH-833 Mk.II
- Rogue Audio Apollo
- McIntosh Mc2301

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