Magico Q7

number95 · Oct 28, 2014

microstrip said:
I would like to see some measurements on this value and specially the impedance curve - Magico quoted figures on the efficiency of the Q series have been systematically optimistic by a couple of dB's.

I agree that without examining the impedance curve characteristics as well as phase differential, it is a bit naive to conclude whether a speaker is efficient or not just by looking at an average impedance value the manufacturer claims.

Roysen · Nov 1, 2014

I wonder if my Magico Q7 will be driven with good results by the Russian amplifiers S.A. Lab Erato. I really would like to try. These amplifiers is making my water my mouth more than I have done in years.

http://salaboratory.com/product/usilitel-erato/

http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/syomin/1.html

The set consists of one preamplifier, two mono amplifiers and two output transformers - each in its own cabinet.

Specifications
Erato preamplifier
Output voltage: 12V
Frequency response (max. power), 50Hz to 45'000Hz
Output impedance: 9?
Signal-to-noise ratio: 90dB
THD (100 Ohm): 0.03%
Input impedance:<100k?
Power consumption: 370 watts

Erato monaural amplifier
Output stage mode: Single-end class ?1/?2
Output power (4/8?1, 0.4% ): 75/42 watts
Output power (4/8?, ?2, 0.6%), 102/60 watts
Frequency response (max power), 10Hz to 40'000Hz -1dB
S/N ratio: 95dB
THD (half power): 0.08%
Output impedance: 0.5?
Sensitivity: 7.5V
Input impedance: 275?
Power consumption per channel: 950 watts

Roysen · Nov 1, 2014

microstrip said:
I would like to see some measurements on this value and specially the impedance curve - Magico quoted figures on the efficiency of the Q series have been systematically optimistic by a couple of dB's.

Of cousre I didn't mean or even write that the Q7 has a flat impedance curve at 94db across the entire frequency range. What I do base my statement on is the fact that Magico claims the Q7 is their easiest to drive speaker. I see no reason why that should not be true and I certainly don't see the need to measure anything myself. If anyone else however wants to do so, please be my guest.

LL21 · Nov 1, 2014

Roysen said:
I wonder if my Magico Q7 will be driven with good results by the Russian amplifiers S.A. Lab Erato. I really would like to try. These amplifiers is making my water my mouth more than I have done in years.

http://salaboratory.com/product/usilitel-erato/

http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/syomin/1.html

The set consists of one preamplifier, two mono amplifiers and two output transformers - each in its own cabinet.

View attachment 17839
View attachment 17840

...could be a good call there...I have heard wonderful things about Zanden monos and the Q7. We have discussed your views on Zanden, and I respect you for your opinions. Nevertheless, truly SOTA, powerful tubes with Q7 might be magic.

andromedaaudio · Nov 1, 2014

I ve heard Q 7 on 9600 monos and it sounded very good albeit maybe a little lean in the low bass , could be that the bass would be better on more powerfull (transistor ) amps i dont know

stereo · Nov 1, 2014

andromedaaudio said:
I ve heard Q 7 on 9600 monos and it sounded very good albeit maybe a little lean in the low bass , could be that the bass would be better on more powerfull (transistor ) amps i dont know

yes.... I still have to hear ANY tube amp on ANY speaker with a bass as good as with the best transistor amps. That's why I am a transistor guy (even if I love the mid range of a good tube amp)

microstrip · Nov 1, 2014

stereo said:
yes.... I still have to hear ANY tube amp on ANY speaker with a bass as good as with the best transistor amps. That's why I am a transistor guy (even if I love the mid range of a good tube amp)

It will depend on what you valuate in bass reproduction and perhaps the type of music. I have listened to high power tubes, such as the ARC REF750 or the Atmasphere MA2 and matching preamplifiers with more articulation, coherency and tautness than any SS mammoth. Surely I am not interested in listening to drums played at 3 meters or electronic music.

MadFloyd · Nov 1, 2014

stereo said:
yes.... I still have to hear ANY tube amp on ANY speaker with a bass as good as with the best transistor amps. That's why I am a transistor guy (even if I love the mid range of a good tube amp)

+1

Mike Lavigne · Nov 1, 2014

microstrip said:
It will depend on what you valuate in bass reproduction and perhaps the type of music. I have listened to high power tubes, such as the ARC REF750 or the Atmasphere MA2 and matching preamplifiers with more articulation, coherency and tautness than any SS mammoth. Surely I am not interested in listening to drums played at 3 meters or electronic music.

even on my quite easy load MM7's (96db, 6 ohm, only have to power above 30 hz) there are a number of areas where hi-power solid state simply has advantages in degrees of control and leverage over any tubes. we think of bass performance as deep bass, however.....it's the ease and immediacy of the mid-bass where resembling real life gets either validated or negated. its where snap and explosiveness of a drum kit, and sorting out and completing musical threads, doing scale in a real way without the balloon effect, note decay into a super low noise floor, standing bass overtones and space, bite and energy projection of a horn, or even a tapping foot in a live recording.

could that be real? or, is it dressed up and a bit blunted real? the best tube amps I've ever heard could not pull off this area completely in the realm of the best solid state.

the real trick is all that stuff but also staying natural and refined.

FrantzM · Nov 2, 2014

stereo said:
yes.... I still have to hear ANY tube amp on ANY speaker with a bass as good as with the best transistor amps. That's why I am a transistor guy (even if I love the mid range of a good tube amp)

+1

I would also add that the best SS are as good in the midrange and in that sense are much less one-trick ponies than their tubes counterparts. IMHO, the best SS have reached what tubes used to do best.

andromedaaudio · Nov 2, 2014

To me it is still far from an absolute , i have played piano mastertapes on my Studer B 62 directly fed in the zanden , i would never dare to say anything was wrong with the presentation ( apart from some hiss)

MadFloyd · Nov 2, 2014

Mike Lavigne said:
even on my quite easy load MM7's (96db, 6 ohm, only have to power above 30 hz) there are a number of areas where hi-power solid state simply has advantages in degrees of control and leverage over any tubes. we think of bass performance as deep bass, however.....it's the ease and immediacy of the mid-bass where resembling real life gets either validated or negated. its where snap and explosiveness of a drum kit, and sorting out and completing musical threads, doing scale in a real way without the balloon effect, note decay into a super low noise floor, standing bass overtones and space, bite and energy projection of a horn, or even a tapping foot in a live recording.

could that be real? or, is it dressed up and a bit blunted real? the best tube amps I've ever heard could not pull off this area completely in the realm of the best solid state.

the real trick is all that stuff but also staying natural and refined.

Great post, Mike,

I had forgotten about how much more realistic the drums were when I switched from tubes to SS, both in timbre and speed, and that goes from the kick all the way to the cymbals. 'Snappy' is a good way to describe it.

I think it's quite possible to find a combo of speaker and SS amp that provides a beautiful midrange that evokes tubes without the coloration.

PeterA · Nov 2, 2014

I think it is quite interesting that when Alon Wolf showed his Ultimate 3 horn design and needed only a few watts to drive this massive speaker, that he decided on low powered Solid State amps designed by Nelson Pass. He stated ultra low noise as the reason. He also used a SS pre amp.

SS amps have indeed come a long way.

number95 · Nov 2, 2014

microstrip said:
It will depend on what you valuate in bass reproduction and perhaps the type of music. I have listened to high power tubes, such as the ARC REF750 or the Atmasphere MA2 and matching preamplifiers with more articulation, coherency and tautness than any SS mammoth. Surely I am not interested in listening to drums played at 3 meters or electronic music.

+1

number95 · Nov 2, 2014

PeterA said:
I think it is quite interesting that when Alon Wolf showed his Ultimate 3 horn design and needed only a few watts to drive this massive speaker, that he decided on low powered Solid State amps designed by Nelson Pass. He stated ultra low noise as the reason. He also used a SS pre amp.

SS amps have indeed come a long way.

I agree that SS have come a long way. Compared to 10-15 years ago, the best SS amps not only sound much more organic and musical, but also have better control nd grip over hard speaker loads. That said, tube amps also have come along way. The current best tube amps have less coloration if any and much better transient response n control.

LL21 · Nov 2, 2014

number95 said:
I agree that SS have come a long way. Compared to 10-15 years ago, the best SS amps not only sound much more organic and musical, but also have better control nd grip over hard speaker loads. That said, tube amps also have come along way. The current best tube amps have less coloration if any and much better transient response n control.

+1. From what I have read, its the match of the speaker and amp that matter incredibly...so presumably that means great tubes with the right speaker can offer the same levels of propulsive bass, linearity, detail, low noise floor...that the right SS amp can with the right speaker. In my own experience, the VTL Siegfried II monos (2 sets) with the Rockport Arrakis 2 and all-Kondo with Genesis were the 2 greatest audio auditions for me of all time. Does not mean I would not love to go back and insert all-Gryphon into either system (I would), but I have a hard time making the case in my own experience to decry either technology at this advanced level of both. Today's designers have really pushed tubes and SS quite far, and yes, I have found the 2 sound more similar than different today relative to even 7 years ago.

number95 · Nov 2, 2014

Mike Lavigne said:
even on my quite easy load MM7's (96db, 6 ohm, only have to power above 30 hz) there are a number of areas where hi-power solid state simply has advantages in degrees of control and leverage over any tubes. we think of bass performance as deep bass, however.....it's the ease and immediacy of the mid-bass where resembling real life gets either validated or negated. its where snap and explosiveness of a drum kit, and sorting out and completing musical threads, doing scale in a real way without the balloon effect, note decay into a super low noise floor, standing bass overtones and space, bite and energy projection of a horn, or even a tapping foot in a live recording.

could that be real? or, is it dressed up and a bit blunted real? the best tube amps I've ever heard could not pull off this area completely in the realm of the best solid state.

the real trick is all that stuff but also staying natural and refined.

Mike, I think we all talk our books. So far, I have never got or preferred a tube design which I thought the transient response and speed were better compared to a good SS, which are not in most cases. But, in terms of articulation and decay, timbre, soundstage, I have preferred best tube designs over SS. In terms of timbre realism and midrange clarity, I have found best tube designs leading the edge.

Mike Lavigne · Nov 2, 2014

number95 said:
Mike, I think we all talk our books. So far, I have never got or preferred a tube design which I thought the transient response and speed were better compared to a good SS, which are not in most cases. But, in terms of articulation and decay, timbre, soundstage, I have preferred best tube designs over SS. In terms of timbre realism and midrange clarity, I have found best tube designs leading the edge.

i'll agree that the very best tube amps have a special way of doing small scale music and the holographic aspect of voices and such. but I prefer the midrange realism and clarity of my solid state 458 darts to any tubes I have heard. I've heard a 45 tube DHT SET have speed inside the note that is breathtaking, but also fall short in most other ways to the best solid state.

I'm not sure how much the attributes of my dart 458's can be assumed for other solid state amps....i'll leave that for others to say.

of course; this is in the context of a system designed to be full range and do large scale music without limits. systems intended to excel at small scale music such as (over 100db efficient) horns that the ideal amp is generally a low noise tube amp. plug those same amps into my system, even considering the efficiency of my speakers, and the limits of the tube amps becomes clear.

there is no one ultimate answer for every system context.

microstrip · Nov 2, 2014

Mike Lavigne said:
i'll agree that the very best tube amps have a special way of doing small scale music and the holographic aspect of voices and such.(...)

there is no one ultimate answer for every system context.

Mike,

The very best powerful tube amps have a special way of doing also large scale music, such as a large symphonic orchestra or a large chorus. And it is not only the holographic aspect of voices and such, it is mostly in the the absence of electronics artifacts that allows the music to sound less as a mechanical reproduction and more like live event.

But yes, you have a point about SS in drums - it was why I excluded them in my original post. And you ending comment is very true!

microstrip · Nov 2, 2014

MadFloyd said:
(...) I think it's quite possible to find a combo of speaker and SS amp that provides a beautiful midrange that evokes tubes without the coloration.

Please do not forget to tell us about this specimen when you find it. I am still looking for it, specially in Summer months.

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