Magico Q7

microstrip

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Hi stereo,

some great info. I have been reading this thread and these speakers have really peaked my interest. I would love to hear this set-up, is this person a member and where is it located US?

Stereo,

There are several interesting comments in the Audiogon thread. There is one however I find disturbing: They also need amplification with lots of good, clean power or they will not perform to their potential. . Why will a speaker with 94 dB/W need lots of power? When I read about the Q7 I thought it would be a nice speaker to associate with the Dartzeel NHB108, everyone refers to the NHB458 ... A similar thing is happening with the XLF - I would expect that if speakers get much more efficient you will need less power. :rolleyes:
 

Mike Lavigne

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Hifimaniac is located in the US. You can contact him directly on Audiogon and ask him where he listened to the Q7

i know the guy with the Q7's and NHB-458's, i sold him one of my A90's. he lives in the Southwestern US. i've not been to his room. i've never seen the owner of this room post.

i've not personally heard the Q7's; but assuming it has a character in common with the Q5 it will benefit from the naturalness of the NHB-458 and NHB-18NS compared to other solid state amps/preamps i'm familiar with. i would agree that clean power and outstanding sources would also help.

as far as needing power even at 94db; it's a matter of agility and distortion. when an amp never breaks a sweat yet is pure sounding, the sense of reality is increased.

my MM7's will be 96db and the NHB-458's will only power down to 50hz, yet the benefit of all that headroom will be considerable.

but having lots of power yet retaining that naturalness is why the NHB-458 costs 130,000 swiss franks.
 

MylesBAstor

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Apr 20, 2010
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Stereo,

There are several interesting comments in the Audiogon thread. There is one however I find disturbing: They also need amplification with lots of good, clean power or they will not perform to their potential. . Why will a speaker with 94 dB/W need lots of power? When I read about the Q7 I thought it would be a nice speaker to associate with the Dartzeel NHB108, everyone refers to the NHB458 ... A similar thing is happening with the XLF - I would expect that if speakers get much more efficient you will need less power. :rolleyes:

I might be mistaken but I seem to remember that it has something to do with the speaker being a sealed design?
 

FrantzM

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Hi

The real world sensitivity of the Q7 is likely much lower than 94 dB, In the specs sheet there is no mention of how the stated sensitivity is measured ... The speaker is also a 4 Ohms speakers. Se sensitivity is measured when acrsoss the terminal of the speaker the reading is 2.83 volts supposing an impedance of 8 ohms ... The Magico Q7 stated impedance is NOT 8 ohms .. I would generously give it a nominal sensitivity of 91 dB. Again real world is likely less. I don't have anything solid to prove this , it seems to me however, that low sensitivity, sealed full range speakers require more power for the same stated sensitivity than their ported counterparts, unless the bass is taken care by its own amps as in the case of the MM3.

@Mike L
It is my understanding that the MM7 main column (not the sub column) is by itself a full range speaker, capable of 20 Hz to 20 Khz, am I correct? Then are you planning to use a high pass crossover for it? I must say I like the fact that the mains are full range speakers with dedicated subwoofers, I am of the advice that any speaker regardless of its intrinsic low bass capabilities needs subs in most real world rooms for optimal reproduction.

As per why the NHB-458 costs what it cost... what you stated can't be the reason. And by the way, I am all for power and lot of it in anything this side of 103 dB/w/m at 8 ohms...


I am looking forward for a serious audition of the Q7 and the MM7. I'll give my impressions, then.
 

Mike Lavigne

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Apr 25, 2010
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Hi
I don't have anything solid to prove this , it seems to me however, that low sensitivity, sealed full range speakers require more power for the same stated sensitivity than their ported counterparts, unless the bass is taken care by its own amps as in the case of the MM3.

@Mike L
It is my understanding that the MM7 main column (not the sub column) is by itself a full range speaker, capable of 20 Hz to 20 Khz, am I correct? Then are you planning to use a high pass crossover for it? I must say I like the fact that the mains are full range speakers with dedicated subwoofers, I am of the advice that any speaker regardless of its intrinsic low bass capabilities needs subs in most real world rooms for optimal reproduction.

the main towers decend flat to around 50hz; not sure the slope of the roll-off below that. the bass towers do extend up to 40hz-60hz range with an adjustable crossover and other adjustments. so the main towers do not go to 20hz at all that i know of. maybe they go to 30hz at -12db or something like that but i don't have any info to say for sure. when i heard them at Kevin's they sounded seamless to my ears and the plot he showed me was amazingly flat.

As per why the NHB-458 costs what it cost... what you stated can't be the reason. And by the way, I am all for power and lot of it in anything this side of 103 dB/w/m at 8 ohms...

but it's not a trivial thing to get a high powered solid state amp to do everything right.

fair enough. neither of us exactly know how the cost is determined. we also don't know exactly what it cannot be. we could have one of those WBF 500 post discussions of how cost multipliers work, swiss economics, devepment cost, and the 99%. instead i'll withdraw my careless comment and we can move on.

I am looking forward for a serious audition of the Q7 and the MM7. I'll give my impressions, then.

looking forward to it.
 

Bruce B

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the main towers decend flat to around 50hz; not sure the slope of the roll-off below that. the bass towers do extend up to 40hz-60hz range with an adjustable crossover and other adjustments. so the main towers do not go to 20hz at all that i know of. maybe they go to 30hz at -12db or something like that but i don't have any info to say for sure. when i heard them at Kevin's they sounded seamless to my ears and the plot he showed me was amazingly flat.

According to the website the main towers are down -3dB from 25Hz - 40k and down -6dB from 20Hz - 70k

The bass towers are down -3dB from 7Hz - 100Hz and down -6dB from 3Hz - 100Hz
 

LL21

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Dec 26, 2010
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Stereo,

There are several interesting comments in the Audiogon thread. There is one however I find disturbing: They also need amplification with lots of good, clean power or they will not perform to their potential. . Why will a speaker with 94 dB/W need lots of power? When I read about the Q7 I thought it would be a nice speaker to associate with the Dartzeel NHB108, everyone refers to the NHB458 ... A similar thing is happening with the XLF - I would expect that if speakers get much more efficient you will need less power. :rolleyes:

A lots already been said, and likely in most cases by people more knowledgeable than I. I will share my experience only. When i had SF Strads, i originally had 60 watt/channel CJ tubes running them. At 4ohms nominal (but 2.7ohms for a fairly wide bit of the lower spectrum)...when i switched to SS Class A ('only' 100 watts)...at pretty much the same volume, the entire character of the SF changed in the bass for the better...so much more powerful, more in keeping with the rest of the music.

I know when i sometimes say 'needs lots of good clean power'...i may be referring to high current, ability to maintain 'full throttle' at lower impedances (keep doubling down thru 1 or even 0.5ohm load) more than just raw watts (ie, 300 watts/channel into 8ohm load).
 

Mike Lavigne

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-----3Hz! :eek:

it's not the -6db at 3hz that is impressive, it's what that means in terms of the linearity in the teens and twentys (10hz-30hz) with no strain that gives you the foundation and sense of space. -8- 15" drivers each in it's own (150+ pounds each unit) sealed box powered by 4000 watts means the drivers don't need much excursion and therefore distortion is very low. neither the drivers nor the amps are working that hard even on peaks.
 
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NorthStar

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it's not the -6db at 3hz that is impressive, it's what that means in terms of the linearity in the teens and twentys (10hz-30hz) with no strain that gives you the foundation and sense of space. -8- 15" drivers each in it's own sealed box powered by 4000 watts means the drivers don't need much excursion and therefore distortion is very low. neither the drivers nor the amps are working that hard even on peaks.

-----Not everyone here is lucky enough to hear the 'true ambiance' (foundation, sense of space) on their music recordings from their libraries. ...And that's for sure.

Methinks it is sad, and I am sad. ...But happy to at least know what I'm missing in my life. :b ...Still sad though, in true reality. :(
 

Mike Lavigne

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-----Not everyone here is lucky enough to hear the 'true ambiance' (foundation, sense of space) on their music recordings from their libraries. ...And that's for sure.

Methinks it is sad, and I am sad. ...But happy to at least know what I'm missing in my life. :b ...Still sad though, in true reality. :(

Bob,

don't be sad.:)

you are a ferry ride and short drive away from visiting me near Seattle when you want to hear it. just let me know when you want to come over.
 

NorthStar

Member
Feb 8, 2011
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435
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Bob,

don't be sad.:)

you are a ferry ride and short drive away from visiting me near Seattle when you want to hear it. just let me know when you want to come over.

-----Mike, you're a cool guy, and generous too.

* I remember very well (as if it was yesterday) when I was working at that Theater Hall in my hometown, and listening as a true listener in the audience, to some Classical music concerts, and really feeling the ambiance, the sense of space, the foundation of that Hall; its walls, columns, ceilings, floors, ...

To recreate that in your own room is to be a true music passionate of the highest calibration level.
 
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LL21

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Dec 26, 2010
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...@Mike L
It is my understanding that the MM7 main column (not the sub column) is by itself a full range speaker, capable of 20 Hz to 20 Khz, am I correct?... I must say I like the fact that the mains are full range speakers with dedicated subwoofers, I am of the advice that any speaker regardless of its intrinsic low bass capabilities needs subs in most real world rooms for optimal reproduction.

I am looking forward for a serious audition of the Q7 and the MM7. I'll give my impressions, then.

Agree on separate subs, even though i have a long way to go for 'ideal setup'...but already it has been a world of difference in my room...i would not live without it. Meanwhile, DEFINITELY looking forward to reading your impressions of both '7' speakers...MM7 and Q7!! Enjoy!
 

microstrip

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May 30, 2010
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Hi

The real world sensitivity of the Q7 is likely much lower than 94 dB, In the specs sheet there is no mention of how the stated sensitivity is measured ... The speaker is also a 4 Ohms speakers. Se sensitivity is measured when acrsoss the terminal of the speaker the reading is 2.83 volts supposing an impedance of 8 ohms ... The Magico Q7 stated impedance is NOT 8 ohms .. I would generously give it a nominal sensitivity of 91 dB. Again real world is likely less. I don't have anything solid to prove this , it seems to me however, that low sensitivity, sealed full range speakers require more power for the same stated sensitivity than their ported counterparts, unless the bass is taken care by its own amps as in the case of the MM3. (...)

Frantz,

I am looking forward for a serious audition of the Q7 and the MM7. I'll give my impressions, then.

AFAIK, the figure usually specified in not the efficiency of the speaker, but the sensitivity is just the measured acoustic level at 1m using pink noise at 2.83V RMS - as 2.83V over 8 ohms is 1 W, it is often abbreviated as dB/W. It is aimed to allow us to control what volume we get with a certain voltage - but as manufacturers specify the power of their amplifiers at 8 ohms we often use it for a first (sometimes misleading) indication of compatibility.

I share your feeling above sealed speakers versus ported, but I acknowledge it must be wrong... Perhaps it is due that usually ported speakers are larger than sealed ones and have higher sensitivity, and we associate them with lower power amplfiers. ;)

BTW, the french magazine Nouvelle Revue du Son has been showing the measurements of speaker efficiency in a much better way for long:
 

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LL21

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This does help...so the chart shows that to produce 85dbs...you need the amount of wattage on the left of the chart to get a particular frequency (at the bottom of the chart) to hit 85dbs...yes?
 

FrantzM

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Apr 20, 2010
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microstrip

I agree with you , my mistake, efficiency would have been a figure of Acoustic watts over electric watts. In the audiophile parlance we do talk however of High efficiency speakers not of high sensitivity although the former is correct.. I did follow the audiophile usage so I am sure you did get my point...

So to be on the correct side let's use the proper term: sensitivity. Taken from the Magico web site, they state the sensitivity of their Q5 at 86 dB/w/m taken at 1 watt at 1 KHz, ... If we use the nominal impedance of the speaker, 4 Ohms 2.83 volts at the output would produce 2 watts not one (1) watt of electrical power, thus to compare this with a speaker with a nominal impedance of 8 ohms you would need to subtract 3 dB from the stated sensitivity and this at 1 Khz. Averaging it from the standard 300 to 3 khz (forgot where that came from but that is the requirement ) ... This speaker, the Q5 is likely at best an 83 dB speaker ( 3dB less compared with a 8ohms speaker that would have had the same ratings) maybe less and this is a game many manufacturers play ... If the sensitivity of the Q7 is measured with the same protocol, it should be compared to a 91 dB (at 8 ohm) speaker and since the output is not averaged between 300 and 3 Khz , it is likely less .. I would guess in the 89 dB range ... It is not a high efficiency/sensitivity design as the stated 94 dB would suggest ..No proof, simply call it a hunch.. Jeff Fritz has the Q7 and could chime in .. As for the cabinet vibrating, it could be a case of a defect with that particular sample.
 

stereo

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Sep 1, 2012
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First, the Q7 are much easier to drive than the Q5. Yes, they are a 4 Ohm speaker and 94dB is rated at a 8 Ohm standard. So you can adjust down sensitivity to 91dB. Even at 91dB, they can still be considered as high efficiency speakers, even if far away from what you can achieve on horns...

The Spectral DM260 had no problem at all driving it in a big room at a dealer demo during Munich show, so I wouldn't say they need "big power" to work well. But the load is still not an easy one, so you need an amp with good current capability.
The small Dartzeel may be able to drive them, but of course it depends on your room side and how loud you are listening. What a bigger amp brings you is headroom, and very high peak power: the power supply is big enough that you never get current limited. The Q7 are the most dynamic speaker I have heard: you will benefit from extra headroom, because unlike most speakers on the market, the limiting factor will be the amp, not the speaker itself. That's why I believe they would sound much better on the big Dartzeel: it has a refined sound with very nice decay of notes and it is at the same time extremely dynamic, with explosive power.
More important than big power, you need clean and "fast" power. These speakers are so transparent that you hear absolutely everything you will feed them with. So they deserve being fed by the best. At the end, if I would have to chose between feeding them with 250W of extremely refined and transparent power and 600W of an amp a bit less transparent, I would go for the first...
 
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mep

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Does anyone ever wonder why that speaker measurements never include the percentage of distortion that the speakers under test impart to the signal they are fed? Like the crazy aunt in the attic that no one ever wants to talk about, the distortion of speakers is never measured or talked about in reviews and yet it is common wisdom that the distortion produced by speakers dwarfs the distortion of well designed electronics.
 

stereo

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Sep 1, 2012
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