When it comes to room acoustics, how do you find someone you trust?

caesar · Nov 24, 2011

Unlike buying a car or a new appliance, you can't see the final product and test it out. The acoustics professional provides professional services, not a product.

The right acoustician, if you can find him, will be the one who can provide the judgment, technical expertise, and creative skills, to help you realize a project that fits your practical needs as well as your dreams. The wrong one can create an either excessively dead or an overly lively room after you write them a check for $XX,xxx.

Bruce B · Nov 24, 2011

The best indication is word of mouth and their track record.

audioguy · Nov 24, 2011

Bruce B said:
The best indication is word of mouth and their track record.

And they are good at after-the-install service!

amirm · Nov 24, 2011

It is the same as everything else. If you are not an educated customer, you won't know the difference between good and bad. It is critical to test them on a few aspects of acoustics and get their opinion on them and make sure what they say jives.

JackD201 · Nov 24, 2011

Try to visit as many places he has actually worked on as possible. It's the acoustics equivalent of the home audition.

lasercd · Nov 25, 2011

Bruce is on the money. Word of mouth and track record are probably your best bet. When I was looking around for someone to tune my new listening room I asked a number of people who had first hand knowledge. I had hoped to work with Kevin Tellencamp of Silent Running Audio. I was in Kevin's personal listening room and it was extraordinary. Unfortunately Kevin was tied up with a government contract and couldn't take on the job. I asked Bob Katz, my mastering engineer, for a suggestion and he recommended Mike Chafee. Mike works in the pro and consumer world - ie. mastering studios for Bob Katz and Alan Silverman as well as high end home theater set ups. With Bob's recommendation I hired Mike and it worked out amazingly well.

Ask around to people who's opinion you respect.

Bjorn · Dec 20, 2011

I'm surprised how few understands small room acoustics. Even people who work in the field. I become highly sceptical when so called experts uses RT60 as a measurement tool, places a lot of diffusors in the early reflections zone, uses absorbents with reflective membrane and say something like "whatever sounds good to you works well".

It we want to hear the recording room in fulness, there are clear answers and specific ways to treat the room.

microstrip · Dec 20, 2011

lasercd said:
Bruce is on the money. Word of mouth and track record are probably your best bet. When I was looking around for someone to tune my new listening room I asked a number of people who had first hand knowledge. I had hoped to work with Kevin Tellencamp of Silent Running Audio. I was in Kevin's personal listening room and it was extraordinary. Unfortunately Kevin was tied up with a government contract and couldn't take on the job. I asked Bob Katz, my mastering engineer, for a suggestion and he recommended Mike Chafee. Mike works in the pro and consumer world - ie. mastering studios for Bob Katz and Alan Silverman as well as high end home theater set ups. With Bob's recommendation I hired Mike and it worked out amazingly well.

Ask around to people who's opinion you respect.

As I was not familiar with the company you refer i looked for information on Michael Chafee Enterprises. I quote from his site:

Mike is TEF licensee #13 worldwide, attending the landmark Richard Heyser seminar in 1979. He uses many advanced measurement systems, the most important being his ears.

Can you summarize the acoustic treatment he did in your room?

lasercd · Dec 20, 2011

The room was constructed well before I was introduced to Mike so he had to work with what I gave him. Basically I handed him a bomb shelter.

Mike kept it very simple. First thing he did was listen. Then he took measurements and started to reposition the speakers. Mike is an Auralex rep for Florida so he recommended their panels in a variety of sizes. He roughed out a pattern around the room with the different panels. He constantly fine tuned the positioning of the speakers and there were additional sweeps of the room. Once he had it locked in we permanently mounted the panels to the walls. He happened to come back for a visit a few months later and we repurposed some acoustic foam I had on hand and mounted it on the ceiling.

Mike's main assets are his knowledge of acoustics, years of experience, and most of all his ears.

The price of the materials was minimal. The main cost for me was Mike's time and travel expense from Florida to New Jersey.

I'm always amazed at how much people will spend on their gear but balk at doing room treatment. There isn't any upgrade of equipment that will be as profound as a improving the acoustics of their room. The average listener doesn't even realize the capabilities of their equipment.

Bruce B · Dec 20, 2011

lasercd said:
I'm always amazed at how much people will spend on their gear but balk at doing room treatment. There isn't any upgrade of equipment that will be as profound as a improving the acoustics of their room. The average listener doesn't even realize the capabilities of their equipment.

This amazes me as well. This is the biggest bang for the buck anyone could make!

Husk · Dec 20, 2011

Bruce, Is this something you do or who would you recommend in the NW?

amirm · Dec 20, 2011

caesar said:
Unlike buying a car or a new appliance, you can't see the final product and test it out. The acoustics professional provides professional services, not a product.

The right acoustician, if you can find him, will be the one who can provide the judgment, technical expertise, and creative skills, to help you realize a project that fits your practical needs as well as your dreams. The wrong one can create an either excessively dead or an overly lively room after you write them a check for $XX,xxx.

I think there is no way out of being an informed customer. You have to know enough to ask the hard questions. I cheat sometimes though

. At CEDIA, i sat through two multi-hour training sessions, both covering this topic. The presenters took opposing views. I asked them about that. Only one gave good answers

. And that was the one based on science.

amirm · Dec 20, 2011

Husk said:
Bruce, Is this something you do or who would you recommend in the NW?

I would not limit your search to PNW. We use Keith Yates and he works out of California. Lot of work though gets done remotely.

Bruce B · Dec 21, 2011

Husk said:
Bruce, Is this something you do or who would you recommend in the NW?

I'm with Amir. I don't know of anyone in the PNW that has a proven track record. I could listen to a room and tell you if it's good/bad, but that's as far as I'd go.
I'd look up Keith Yates, Chris Huston or Bob Hodas. The later 2 did my rooms.

Bjorn · Dec 21, 2011

Bruce B said:
I'm with Amir. I don't know of anyone in the PNW that has a proven track record. I could listen to a room and tell you if it's good/bad, but that's as far as I'd go.
I'd look up Keith Yates, Chris Huston or Bob Hodas. The later 2 did my rooms.

Do you have any measurements of the rooms? Would be interesting to see together with description and pictures of what has been done.

MylesBAstor · Dec 21, 2011

Bruce B said:
This amazes me as well. This is the biggest bang for the buck anyone could make!

That's kind of oversimplifying the situation many audiophiles face

How many people have a "dedicated" audio room that they can do anything they want to? Plus, most of the room Rx stuff looks like crap IMHO.

FrantzM · Dec 21, 2011

MylesBAstor said:
That's kind of oversimplifying the situation many audiophiles face How many people have a "dedicated" audio room that they can do anything they want to? Plus, most of the room Rx stuff looks like crap IMHO.

Not an oversimplification. A statement of fact.
Room Treatment would still bring more bang to the buck than anything else an audiophile would and can do ... Even in a non dedicated room situation... At the inflated price of audiophile gear, Audiophile-certified room treatments are a relative bargain. Most look like crap , maybe, many looks good and could even add to a decor.

microstrip · Dec 21, 2011

amirm said:
I think there is no way out of being an informed customer. You have to know enough to ask the hard questions. I cheat sometimes though . At CEDIA, i sat through two multi-hour training sessions, both covering this topic. The presenters took opposing views. I asked them about that. Only one gave good answers . And that was the one based on science.

I would have loved to have assisted to it. For some time I researched on this subject. I found that opinions of sound engineers were sometimes in completely opposition on this matters. As usual, F. Toole positions in his book "Sound Reproduction", written as you say using science and large experience, are in collision with many widespread myths.

microstrip · Dec 21, 2011

FrantzM said:
(...). Most look like crap , maybe, many looks good and could even add to a decor.

Unless you persuade a great artist to paint something over your acoustic panels, I can not remember any one adding to the decor.

IMHO, they only add to the decor behind an acoustical curtain.

MylesBAstor · Dec 21, 2011

FrantzM said:
Not an oversimplification. A statement of fact.
Room Treatment would still bring more bang to the buck than anything else an audiophile would and can do ... Even in a non dedicated room situation... At the inflated price of audiophile gear, Audiophile-certified room treatments are a relative bargain. Most look like crap , maybe, many looks good and could even add to a decor.

Frantz-what I was saying is that many audiophiles share their listening rooms/living rooms and can't install ugly room Rx. If you've got your own space, knock yourself out!

When it comes to room acoustics, how do you find someone you trust?

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