JansZen electrostatic

kach22i

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JansZen electrostatic speakers, the new ones from the son, not the old ones.

Anybody hear them before?

A local store now carries them, they looks cool, some interesting Industrial Design going on.


Sorry about the dark room/picture.

Try this:
http://www.janszenloudspeaker.com/


EDIT:

http://www.janszenloudspeaker.com/ordering.htm
Ordering. For pricing, current availability, and auditioning opportunities and incentives, please contact our exclusive sales outlet and national sales management team at Paragon Sight and Sound.

Guess Ann Arbor, Michigan is the only place to hear these speakers.:D
 

MylesBAstor

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George-

Those speakers have always piqued my interest too-esp. an stat that was amp friendly and didn't drop below 4 ohms? I think that interest was tempered somewhat by the price-if I remember correctly 20k+?
 

kach22i

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George-

Those speakers have always piqued my interest too-esp. an stat that was amp friendly and didn't drop below 4 ohms? I think that interest was tempered somewhat by the price-if I remember correctly 20k+?
I don't know how much the news ones have in common with the old ones. I didn't ask about the price, sort of looked like if you have to ask then you can't afford them.
 

kach22i

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JansZen loudspeaker review - by kach22i
May 30, 2010
Time: 4:00 PM – 5:15 PM
Paragon Sight and Sound, Ann Arbor, Michigan
http://www.paragonsns.com/

Disclosure: I have purchased within the past six years and had serviced at Paragon a previously owned tube amp and tube preamp. I have no complaints about them or their service and would recommend them to my friends. I have no grudge to grind or past disputes and no business relationship with them which would lend me to be overly kind either.

I called 15 minutes ahead on a spur of the moment impulse and asked them to hook up the JanZen speakers, which they did even though I admitted that I was not a serious buyer and only curious. Matt the sales rep on the phone asked if I had would prefer the tube McIntosh MC2301 at 300 watts
http://www.mcintoshlabs.com/products/1112.asp

or the solid state MC501 at 500 watts
http://www.mcintoshlabs.com/products/mcintosh-mc501-monoblock-power-amplifier.asp

I’m a tube guy at my core and if I don’t hear the full bloom of vocals done right, it is difficult for me to be impressed with gobs of beautiful power no matter how well done and grain free, so I opted for the MC2301’s.

Esoteric P-05, D-05 and G-03X were the transport, DAC and master clock generator.

McIntosh C-1000 was the controller pre-amp.

Matt had just turned on the tube amps a minute before I got there and was doing the final touches on some toe-in to the speakers using some furniture slider disks. The perforated grills were already removed per the manufactures recommendations. He had volume set fairly high (set to impress) on a test CD and right off the bat I could tell the sound was as large as the speakers. Soon after the set up was done he put my CD in and left the room so I could listen uninterrupted.

The room was large about 25’x30’, speakers well out into the room on the long wall, and about 15 feet apart (I would have them only 10 feet ctr to ctr). Three high back leather home theater seats with cup holders centered. I tried to sit up in the chair to get my ears off the headrest, but that did not change the sound much. The chairs were about three or four feet off the back wall. Sorry, no photos I forgot my camera in the rush to get there before the 5:00 PM Saturday closing time.

Experience primer: I don’t think I’ve ever heard such an expensive system for this length of time, the speakers alone are about $30,000. I think if you were willing to settle for getting “90% there” you could spend 1/10th the amount (used market) and be happy. However if I ever came into some serious money, I certainly would have nicer toys like this.


1st CD:
This is Jazz sampler, Track-1, Dave Brubeck – Take Five (picked free at Borders Books 14 years ago)

Good depth on drum solo which was left channel dominated. Drums were life-like, and the cymbals had the right amount of clash and splash.
Horn playing was a bit honky at those levels so I turned down the volume just a hair which cured it completely.

Piano on the right channel seemed a bit recessed, don’t think the tube amp was warmed up yet as it also lacked a certain energy or urgency.

2nd CD:
Finn Brothers, Finn Brothers, Track-1 – Only talking sense

Full bass and not too boomy which is a problem in some rooms and speakers (I’ve struggled with this at my home). These are not bass shy speakers, I say they are full range and sort of fill or load the room like big horn speakers do in that respect.

I was hearing things in the very familiar recording which I never heard before. New keyboard/piano cords emanating out of the left channel, oddly localized. I say oddly only because I’ve never heard them before and did not expect to hear them. This was a very cool discovery, I was starting to get into it now.

Overall I’d say these speakers are not as open and airy as other panel speakers. They are not boxy or congested though, just seemed meaty and solid and never wimpy.

I moved around to the other seats, and moved behind the seats squeezing between some box speakers stored there. Narrow sweetspot, not as narrow as Martin Logan’s and no phase shifting up and down like some M/L’s. There was no phase shifting side to side as one sometimes finds on large ribbon speakers either.

3rd CD:
Holly Cole, Temptation, Track-1 – Take me home
Track-2 – Train Song

This CD is known for the scale of the voice and warmth/detail of the acoustic bass. The scale of the voice was big, but not huge. I caught myself looking up at an invisible line bridging across the tops of the two speakers, like a high stage. If I kept doing this, I’d get a crick in my neck, very curious as I expect the vocals to be centered and in the middle not so panoramically diffused.

The speakers were several feet apart more than I would have placed them - edit. I’ve found most panel speakers tend to sound near-field if at or just inside the sweet spot. I was not listening near field this time, and standing behind the seats had no appreciable affect, but some questions were forming about psychoacoustics. The radiation pattern is just too different from stats to conventional dynamic speakers to be setting them up following the same rules of thumb or standards.


4th CD:
Colourbox, Colourbox, Track-3 – Say you will

Female vocals with synthesizer effects not as open as it could be, seems flat compared to what I’ve known it to sound like. Should be deep, project well and yet have a distant canned sound all at the same time. However the voice does not unintentionally phase shift at all, and instruments are easy to single out and follow. It is not compressed, yet there is not a wow factor to the dynamics either. Perhaps the 500 watt S.S. MC501 would have been the better choice as Larry the store owner later popped in and suggested. In the end, this track was not as fast and perky as I would have liked. It should make you want to jump up and dance with its Caribbean techno rave beat.

5th CD:
Concrete Blonde, Bloodletting, Track-3 – Caroline

Lead female voice not as smoky as I would have liked. Rhythm a tad slow, not sluggish mind you. I can clearly hear the triangle being hit which typically gives me a tingle, but this time it was uneventful, almost boring or polite. Great detail, just not real intimate or immediate. Had the same issues with Holly Cole’s vocals (3rd CD), did not feel there was a real person I could rear out and touch.

6th CD:
Roxy Music, Heart still beating, Track-1 – India (live outdoor recording)
Track-3 – While my heart is still bleeding (live outdoor recording)
Track-4 – Out of the blue (live outdoor recording)

Turned up the volume for India as the crowd cheering on Maggie 3.6’s many years ago is something I have never forgotten. Imaging, sense of depth and capturing this outdoor event’s space on the JanZen is still not 100% of the best I’ve heard before. Might be a problem with the room, but what limited localized soundstage there was, seemed to be shifted to the upper left hand corner.

I turned the Mac preamp +3 to the right which helped until later when I closed my eyes and then returned it back to neutral.

The presence is still distant but not excessively and there is good overall frequency balance top to bottom. The midrange just did not jump out at me as I typically would like it to. This really could have been because of my choice of amp(s), the 501’s would have pushed it and opened it up more I’m sure of it. Also maybe the tube amp and speakers are both still being broken in a bit, I’m not sure of their hours of use or personal history.

About the detail, this is not a technical sounding speaker, you can just sit back and enjoy. My attention was not constantly drawn from the music to some nuisance or some special detail. However on several occasions I heard new things in the music which I’ve never heard before. Typically they were percussion trappings coming from the left channel, sometimes they were new piano notes on the right.



7th CD:
Annie Lennox, Little Bird, Track-1 – Little Bird

This is where Larry the owner pops in and asks me what I think so far. I take my time and tell him the imaging is not there, no center vocals of solid and definite size and it seems shifted to the left. He says; try closing your eyes.

I hit play, this is when I close my eyes, like an on/off switch the sonic experience becomes very headphone like, but like large headphones kept at the same distance as regular loudspeakers.

I get up again and turn the balance back to neutral because now it’s off a tad to the right. I also turn up the volume because this is a song known as sounding good loud, with lots of punch and drive galore. It hits all the right spots, but only with my eyes closed. I’m in a state of disbelief, but the clock is ticking so I keep feeding CD’s into the Esoteric.

8th CD:
Robert Cray, Sweet Potato Pie, Track-1 – Nothing against you

The tubes must have finally warmed up, keeping my eyes closed again this song has all the energy and bounce the other CD’s lacked. It really projects and has lots of attack speed.

See diagram 1 & 2 at end of review.

9th CD:

Nil Lara, Nil Lara, Track-1 – Money makes the monkey dance

Strong bass guitar, vocals have proper aggressive grit and character, Rock & Roll with soul. I purchased this CD after seeing Nil Lara perform live (free) on the second floor of Borders Books in Ann Arbor, just hours before another performance at the Michigan Theater across the street, this was about 13 years ago. See diagram 4 at end of review.

10th CD:
Ducan Sheik, Ducan Sheik, Track-6 – Serena

I’m still unable to visualize a center stage with my eyes open. With eyes closed it’s like good stat headphones. Rhythm is picking up too, rather Linn-like.

Gross Observation; vocals not dynamic speaker/point source like, they are not exactly electrostatic in character either. Could be “LIVE” sounding, depending on what “live” means to you and in what sort of venue you are at. For example if live music is amplified and coming out a PA system set up behind the singer like with Nil Lara at Borders Books (see diagram 4) then this approaches it (gotta have your eyes closed).

11th CD:
Miles Davis, Kind of Blue, Track-1 – So What

Opposite of congested, plus great textures and detail. Imaging less and less disappointing, getting used to it or it is getting better.

12th CD:
Eric Clapton, Pilgrim, Track-1 – My father’s eyes

Like the world’s best headphones when I close my eyes.

Summary:
1-1/4 hours of listening time. Matt said he had just turned on the amps a minute before I walked in. The tube amps in my estimation took a good 45 minutes to get cooking. Good speakers, but at that price range you could choose anything and be happy, right?

Psychoacoustics
Exploratory thoughts regarding imaging:

1. Does correct imaging fit a single standard, a finite mold?

2. What of the variances caused by the recording engineer and producer’s intent and goals?

3. Does live music ever image to what we have grown accustomed to and expect to hear in our 2-channel home systems?

4. What would cause such a shift in perception by simply closing one’s eyes?



I am left with more questions than answers. It makes me think and because of that this has been a good experience.

Some people don’t like headphones because images appear in the middle of their head. Others like nearfield listening, while still others like the listening position much further back.

There is something different, unique and special about the presentation these speakers make. If in the neighborhood you owe it to yourself to hear them. Try them with the S.S. McIntosh MC501’s and tell me what you think. They should be the better amp match from what I’ve been told and by what I’ve heard of their reputation.

My system peculiarities and taste in the past have left me at odds with set-ups at other dealers. Like I said I like speakers close together with a solid and tight center stage/phantom center image, and I’m willing to give up something in stage width to achieve this goal.

The one time I had a chance to listen to some BAT amplification the store owner placed the speakers very far apart, about 20 feet apart. I had a very difficult time discerning anything from that experience as it was so far out of context from any previous experience. This was not the case this time, however I would have certainly set the speakers closer together.

The guy doing the set-up (Matt) said he wanted the speakers closer to the front wall (they were 10 feet out), but some heavy amps were already occupying the real estate. This would have placed my listening position further back, and that in my opinion would be a good thing, and similar results to moving them closer together. I also like a good sense of depth, and despite these speaker being well into the room I feel they could have been deeper times. Although the drums on Brubeck’s “Time Out” did knock me out with their depth, and that was the first CD played.

Diagram-1



Diagram-2



Diagram-3



Diagram-4



Diagram-5


Share your thoughts on imaging, I know we have a few recording engineerings out there.

Would Diagram-3 be what you/we are shooting for most of the time on playback?
 
Last edited:

nsgarch

Well-Known Member
Apr 20, 2010
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George, thanks for taking the time to go listen to these speakers, and for your very excellent write-up. And after looking at your sketches, it's obvious all audio reviewers should learn to draw!! Imagine how much verbal diarrhea could be eliminated?! (Your choice of music was also very interesting, to me anyway, since I'm unfamiliar with at least half of your selections ;--)

Did you inquire whether the pair of Jantzen speakers you auditioned had the optional built-in bass amp or not? If not, I'm guessing the 501's would have provided better results -- although IMO, the best results would be with the on-board bass amp and an external tube amp driving the panels ;--)

I also agree that the imaging would have been much improved by getting the speakers closer together, more like 8 feet on centers, to completely eliminate that little remaining bit of "hole in the middle", and especially with that closed-back design, they definitely could/should have been much closer to the back wall; especially in a larger space, where middle-of-the-room placement has a good chance of producing standing waves.

One should never be shy about asking a salesperson to adjust the setup more to their liking -- whether they agree with your preferences or not, it gives you more cred. Nor should one ever volunteer their status as a buyer -- unless asked -- and then make it clear that several people are waiting to know what you thought ;)
 
Last edited:

MylesBAstor

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Apr 20, 2010
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George-

Thanks for satisfying some of our curiosities about the Janszen estats!

Couple of things:

When I'm setting up intra-speaker difference, I try and listen to the balance between transparency and center image. Two close together and the speakers often sound veiled and muddy; too far apart and there's no centerfill.

I also mind tube equipment needs some time to warm up. With the tube Repro, it takes an hour or two; with the cj amps, anywhere between 40-60 mins (cj says 15 mins). What I particularly notice missing until the amps are warmed up is the sense of space around instruments.

Lastly, it kinda seems like you're saying that the Janszens distort the size of the recording aka the old IRS Vs or Maggies? Now about your diagrams. Like anything, there is no best and many different paths to reach the end goal! Each mike and mike patterning has its their upsides and downsides.

Then there's the obvious that microphones don't "listen" like our ears. In other words, I'm not going to sit midhall for a harpsichord or chamber music group. OTOH, I'm not going to sit in the back of the hall and one can hear that "back hall" perspective on Bert Whyte's Everest recordings. (I haven't heard them in years but remember some of the Sheffield Orchestral recordings having that same perspective.) Mercury's have a too close up perspective for my tastes--but I find the Deccas and RCAs orchestral perspective just about right.

Then on course, there's the question of how to mike a soloist with the orchestra. Some soloists have egos and want their piano front and center since they will tell you their fans want to hear them. So that will distort the orchestral perspective. Then of course there's opera ;)
 

kach22i

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Thanks for the comments and suggestions guys. I think I'll end up going back for a follow up review on this one, speakers closer together and using the MC-501's.

I really hope most professional reviewers (which I am not) would take more than 1-1/4 hours to listen to any pair of speakers. In figure skating they score "technical merit" (in the free skate), "required elements" (in the short program), and "presentation", perhaps they should do the same for speakers to cover both the art and science.

The 6.0 System
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Figure_skating

With the short time spent, I never really took off the critical listening hat and just relaxed and listened to music. Although with one of the last CD's I did hear 3-songs in a row, so I must have been relaxing a little and been getting into it.
 

kach22i

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EDIT: JansZen loudspeaker

Until I can get a better grip on the listening environment and conditions, I'm going to put this review on hold. In retrospect it just does not meet any fair standards just too many variables. However enjoy the cartoon as a place holder.

Cheers, George/kach22i

 
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Chizzap30

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I just did a measurement between the panels and they are approximately 8.5' apart from the middle of the panels and approximately 6' away from the back wall due to the Wilson Maxx 3's are spiked and in place. The listening position is approximately 11' back from the front of the panels.
 

kach22i

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I just did a measurement between the panels and they are approximately 8.5' apart from the middle of the panels and approximately 6' away from the back wall due to the Wilson Maxx 3's are spiked and in place. The listening position is approximately 11' back from the front of the panels.

Thank you for the correction Chizzap30.

I did see a black tape measure in the cup holder of one of the chairs when I was cleaning up and leaving. The thought entered my head about using it but I wanted to get home.

For some reason the speakers just looked a little taller than 6 feet, which may have thrown me off.

J1 Specs.....72" = 6'-0" tall
http://www.janszenloudspeaker.com/
19.5" (49.5 cm) W x 12" (30 cm) D x 72" (183 cm) H

A ratio and proportion method based on squares verifies that they were just less than 9 feet apart.



I'm pretty sure they were slightly closer together this last time, and I think that it helped the imaging.
 
Last edited:

kach22i

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UPDATE: 04/01/12

http://www.janszenloudspeaker.com/ordering.htm
Model One
Availability. The first run of the Model One is sold out. The next major release is being prepared and should be in production by the end of 2012.

http://www.janszenloudspeaker.com/index.htm
The JansZen zA2.1
MSRP: US$2425 each


Review here by Peter Davey:
http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue59/janszen.htm
I can't say enough good things about these speakers as David really got it right with these zA2.1 loudspeakers. They possess the best of both worlds; electrostatic panels that give off an amazing soundstage with focus, clarity and realism; and bass drivers that appear out of nowhere, almost as if they are an exact extension of the ESL driver.
 

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