Do high end Focals have a weird sonic signature?

caesar · Nov 5, 2011

I have heard several different models of Focals, all $30K and up, in different setups, and they all sound very strange to me. They can sound good, but just not real to me. Is it just me, or do they sound very hi-fi to others as well?

LL21 · Nov 5, 2011

Hi...i have never had the chance to hear any Focals...can you describe this aberration? or compare it to: Wilsons, SF, Martin Logan, Thiel, YG...these i have heard and listen to critically. thanks...always been curious about the big Focals.

MylesBAstor · Nov 5, 2011

caesar said:
I have heard several different models of Focals, all $30K and up, in different setups, and they all sound very strange to me. They can sound good, but just not real to me. Is it just me, or do they sound very hi-fi to others as well?

Caeser:

Here's the problem. Are you hearing the speaker or the ancillary components? That's esp. true if listening under unfamiliar circumstances! For me, it's hard to judge with digital sources. I wasn't a big fan of the older models but the newer "big" speakers with the Soulution electronics and Transrotor/Graham Supreme/Air Tight Supreme sounded pretty good to me.

DaveyF · Nov 5, 2011

Caesar, I have heard the larger Focals on many occassions. Like many speakers, they are very room sensitive. Like Myles said, when you heard them, were you hearing the upstream gear, the room or ? The Focals that I have heard can sound very good or very mediocre. At the recent Newport show, the big EM's were, IMO terrible... However, I believe all blame there could be laid to an amateurish set-up and abysmal room. OTOH, looking at this speaker and listening to it there , would I spend $180k for it?..No Way, BUT... In a MUCH better/appropriate Larger room-- Maybe

Bruce B · Nov 5, 2011

DaveyF said:
At the recent Newport show, the big EM's were, IMO terrible... However, I believe all blame there could be laid to an amateurish set-up and abysmal room.

Wasn't the speakers/room set up by Bob Hodas?

DaveyF · Nov 6, 2011

Bruce B said:
Wasn't the speakers/room set up by Bob Hodas?

Bruce I am not sure, however the results spoke for themselves....One of the worst sounding rooms at the show and this time, not just IMHO

Orb · Nov 6, 2011

MylesBAstor said:
Caeser:

Here's the problem. Are you hearing the speaker or the ancillary components? That's esp. true if listening under unfamiliar circumstances! For me, it's hard to judge with digital sources. I wasn't a big fan of the older models but the newer "big" speakers with the Soulution electronics and Transrotor/Graham Supreme/Air Tight Supreme sounded pretty good to me.

Myles,
How do you feel about the current standmount Diablo speaker?
Not a fan or fits in with the newer "big" speakers.

Cheers
Orb

dafos · Nov 7, 2011

At 15k it's great stand mount speaker but, IMO, not quite at the level of the sonus Faber guarneri or the magico mini 2. Focal has made great strides in blending the output of their cutting edge beryllium tweeter for it to better integrate rather than stand out as it did in the first models that used this tweeter. That being said, I still feel that it falls short in the mid range compared to the two aforementioned rivals. On the other hand, the diablo is probably the most detailed of the 3. Anyone willing to drop 13k on a mini monitor ought to carefully audition it not only against it's more expensive competition but against cheaper contenders as well such as the dynaudio confidence c1. While many may question the value that such high priced mini monitors bring to the table, it's truly amazing how these diminutive beauties perform not only in small rooms but in larger settings as well.

garylkoh · Nov 7, 2011

Bruce B said:
Wasn't the speakers/room set up by Bob Hodas?

I don't think so - it was a dealer room with Burmester electronics, and I agree that it was one of the worst sounding rooms I went into at Newport. I thought that the set up was just plain wrong, but then again, there wasn't the space to set them up right.

KeithR · Nov 7, 2011

garylkoh said:
I don't think so - it was a dealer room with Burmester electronics, and I agree that it was one of the worst sounding rooms I went into at Newport. I thought that the set up was just plain wrong, but then again, there wasn't the space to set them up right.

I agree--that Burmester/Focal room was dead to me. Certainly not making music.

Orb · Nov 7, 2011

dafos said:
At 15k it's great stand mount speaker but, IMO, not quite at the level of the sonus Faber guarneri or the magico mini 2. Focal has made great strides in blending the output of their cutting edge beryllium tweeter for it to better integrate rather than stand out as it did in the first models that used this tweeter. That being said, I still feel that it falls short in the mid range compared to the two aforementioned rivals. On the other hand, the diablo is probably the most detailed of the 3. Anyone willing to drop 13k on a mini monitor ought to carefully audition it not only against it's more expensive competition but against cheaper contenders as well such as the dynaudio confidence c1. While many may question the value that such high priced mini monitors bring to the table, it's truly amazing how these diminutive beauties perform not only in small rooms but in larger settings as well.

Thanks for the info and very interesting, maybe its time for them to update their standmount design as this sector has become even more squeezed in the high end with other manufacturers such as Crystal Cable, Vivid Audio, new Sonus Faber,etc.
Thanks
Orb

dafos · Nov 7, 2011

The diablo is a relatively new model, the baby of the same range of speakers that include the 180k utopia em, the 90k Stella utopia em and the well reviewed and highly praised 50k maestro utopia. Also, while not cheap at 13k, the new magico q1 tips in at 25k and the just released guarneri evoluzione will set one back 21k.

JackD201 · Nov 8, 2011

All speakers have a "sound" I suppose. I also think any speaker can be made to sound weird. I don't think I've ever heard them set up by the local dealer where they've ever sounded "weird". Come to think of it. I'm quite sure they've always set them up very well.

caesar · Nov 8, 2011

lloydelee21 said:
Hi...i have never had the chance to hear any Focals...can you describe this aberration? or compare it to: Wilsons, SF, Martin Logan, Thiel, YG...these i have heard and listen to critically. thanks...always been curious about the big Focals.

I thought the Focals are fairly coherent, much more so than the Logans with an active woofer or the Thiels or the Sashas. However, they seriously lack transparency of any of the brands you mention. Additionally, it sounds like the transients have really been goosed up and treble has been rolled off such that cymbals lose their crystalline shimmer. The bass is articulate, but warm - seems like someone eq'd the bass up, while turning down the treble.

These are just one man's observations. I completely agree with others that it could be the room, ancillaries, or setup - fully or partially contributing to the sound in my description. But if it's not, I'm surprised people are paying $30k, $50k, $90K+ for this type of sound.

LL21 · Nov 9, 2011

Thanks...good to keep that in mind, if i ever hear them for myself.

NMMark1962 · Jul 15, 2013

If all goes well, I will get to hear the Grande Utopia EM's at Boulder's factory after RMAF. While I have not heard the current generation of Focals, I can say if they are anything like the previous generation, they are HIGHLY affected by upstream gear. What I have heard (from people whose ears I trust) is that the new generation is even more sensitive to upstream gear as well as room design and over all power....unless you have carefully matched gear I doubt that any pair will sound good in a poorly setup room, with mismatched gear or sorry a** power.....and, I would NEVER trash a speaker/amp/cable, etc based on a show hearing. My one audio show (RMAF 2006) was proof of that....Walker's room was seriously hamstrung by a dreadful pair of speakers. I got to hear a Walker TT much later and it was stunning..if I had based my future interest in a Walker TT based solely on that hearing, I would have made a serious mistake...

I will report on the sound of the Focals at Boulder's plant as I will be paying extreme attention to my impressions....after all, the Grande Utopia EM's are one of several speakers on my short list...

Cheers,

LL21 · Jul 15, 2013

I heard the grande Utopias twice, once with constellation, once with ARC. Both with Metronome Kalista and TA ref cables. Tremendous scale and bass power...not a must-upgrade reaction but certainly can see this speaker being an integral part of a phenomenal system.

sly30 · Jul 16, 2013

lloydelee21 said:
I heard the grande Utopias twice, once with constellation, once with ARC. Both with Metronome Kalista and TA ref cables. Tremendous scale and bass power...not a must-upgrade reaction but certainly can see this speaker being an integral part of a phenomenal system.

I use Focal Grand Utopia III EM and....for me it is the best and no other speakers are even close but....
most presentations which i heard before and later was bad or very bad....why?

Speakers needs about 1000h playing to full warm up. At shows there are new speakers or demos which has 100-300h playing time
or even not!! They can not sound good.
At rear wall there are set ups of drivers. Tweeter can has -,0,+ level and the same 3 positions of Slope.
In my both are minus.
Speakers are very sensitive of room acoustic. I had to make profi acoustic adaptations.

My speakers plays with top burmester pre 077+external power supply+2x 911mk3 factory monoblocks.
This set is not sensitive for interconects but very sensitive for power cables.
With Acrolinks or Siltechs sounds to sharp but with Anacondas Z-Trons sounds great, soft, velvet.
Speaker cable are MIT Oracle MA-X SHD and source is top Metronome set.
NO any silver cables.

If anywhere Grand Utopia with Burmester sound bad means that speakers were not warm up, wrong adjustable at rear wall of speaker, bad acoustic
of room.
But some people like other kind of sound.
It is not boring sound like Tannoy or some other speakers.
Focals sound deep with great bass, great body and feeling of music.
Some likes steaks, some fishes, some pizza. That's live

microstrip · Jul 16, 2013

Any one interested in the Grand Utopia EM should look at the thread on the system of Albert Porter at audiogon - he is using them since April.
http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?vaslt&1022712214&openfrom&2759&4#2759

Phelonious Ponk · Jul 16, 2013

I haven't heard the big Focals, but the ones I have heard struck me as being a bit hot in the upper midrange. That can cause all kinds of strangeness -- in tonality, imaging, percieved transient response. I typically (though not always) prefer fabric tweeters. If I'm going to get coloration in that area (and I am) I'll take it on the dark side, not the bright. But this comes from Mr. all digital all the time. They could sound fabulous with vinyl.

Tim

Do high end Focals have a weird sonic signature?

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