Got $150,000?

MylesBAstor said:

What do you consider SOTA digital? DCS? Playback design? Weiss? Stahltek? Constellation? Or something else. None are cheap dates.

I'd gladly put all of them up against something like the VPI Classic 3 combined with say a $5K Allnic Puritas, ZYX Omega or Lyra Titan i cartridge

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Hi Myles, you're right. Many of the SOTA digital pieces are experiences. Still, i admit (while not being an analogue guy at all), it seems SOTA digital (ie, the uppermost price point) is probably the wadia series 9 or the DCS full stack...roughly 50K-70K. (Stahl-Tek has new Opus which to be fair may be more?) In the case of turntables, it seems we have seen a launch into a few 6-figure turntables (all-in...tone arm, cartridge, etc). Hey, i'm not an analogue guy but that is my impression.

As for which plays better for the money...well, i think many would say (aside from the maintenance), vinyl still rules.

MylesBAstor said:

What do you consider SOTA digital? DCS? Playback design? Weiss? Stahltek? Constellation? Or something else. None are cheap dates.

I'd gladly put all of them up against something like the VPI Classic 3 combined with say a $5K Allnic Puritas, ZYX Omega or Lyra Titan i cartridge

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Myles,
Two weeks ago if some one would have referred to Stahltek I would have thought he was referring to a cousin of Darth Vader ... . Now, just after I read Albert Porter posts at Audiogon, you also refer it. Did you listen to the Stahltek digital systems?

microstrip said:

Myles,
Two weeks ago if some one would have referred to Stahltek I would have thought he was referring to a cousin of Darth Vader ... . Now, just after I read Albert Porter posts at Audiogon, you also refer it. Did you listen to the Stahltek digital systems?

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Not at any length at a show. Albert has far more experience!

Now I've never heard this in my system but the best I've heard (and if I had to plunk down money for) is the Playback Designs using hi-rez digital files created by Bruce Brown. This actually had some semblance of instrumental body and less of the least of that digititus/coldness/steeliness/mechanical quality that really sends me running from the room.

I have heard the Stahl-Tak Vekian at Audio Exotics in Hong Kong. Full Tidal System, Full Tripoint System, Full Argento System. Probably a cool $750K...i posted comments about this earlier this year. In general, the most stunning array of musicians i have ever heard in front of me. Probably 2x more detail, more soundstage, more 3-dimensionality than any system i have ever heard, and i have heard some pretty killer systems which included full Krell Evo 1-2, ARC CD 7, Wilson X2 s2.

Nearly impossible to pull it all apart to speak of the Stahl-Tek...except that i did manage to play around with different parts of the system to get a feel for it. and of course, if it aint in the original source, its never coming thru the rest of the system.

So certainly from a detail standpoint, the Stahl-Tek far, far, far outpaces the Zanden system, the Wadia and is probably a good match for the DCS Scarlatti full stack. Natural? Tonality? Hard to say...i have a good feeling about it.

The problem was that i was not an ardent fan of the system at AE...too strident. Hyperreal...though i think that was a combination of too much emphasis on the same things throughout the chain. Howeverm, my sense was that you get an amazing amount of information off the disc from the Stahl-Tek...and that is a good start, around which you can build the sound to your liking. again, have not heard anything else that gets that much off the disc besides the SCarlatti. And i am speaking about the VEkian...let alone the Stahl-Tek Opus which is what Albert Porter was referring to...i saw that post as well and actually communicated with Albert on it in that post.

MylesBAstor said:

Not at any length at a show. Albert has far more experience!

Now I've never heard this in my system but the best I've heard (and if I had to plunk down money for) is the Playback Designs using hi-rez digital files created by Bruce Brown. This actually had some semblance of instrumental body and less of the least of that digititus/coldness/steeliness/mechanical quality that really sends me running from the room.

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Interesting review/comparison by Michael Fremer in latest Stereophile between Playback Designs and Moon 650D.
Considering his usual preference is vinyl it makes it more relevant for those who feel digital lacks that something (appreciate some here go for the Playback but wonder if they have auditioned the 650D).

Cheers
Orb

Orb said:

Interesting review/comparison by Michael Fremer in latest Stereophile between Playback Designs and Moon 650D.
Considering his usual preference is vinyl it makes it more relevant for those who feel digital lacks that something (appreciate some here go for the Playback but wonder if they have auditioned the 650D).

Cheers
Orb

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Orb,
Although I read reviews with great reserves, this one also triggered my attention. I have listened to the Playback in my system some time ago and had just the same type of objections Fremer writes down now. Surely I would like to listen to the 650D in my system, but is is not distributed in my country. Curiously, the 650D seems to combine state of the art sound performance and measurements.

microstrip said:

Orb,
Although I read reviews with great reserves, this one also triggered my attention. I have listened to the Playback in my system some time ago and had just the same type of objections Fremer writes down now. Surely I would like to listen to the 650D in my system, but is is not distributed in my country. Curiously, the 650D seems to combine state of the art sound performance and measurements.

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Now thats a bit annoying when trying to satisfy ones curiosity
Its available here in the UK but the number of dealers are low, so makes it a bit tricky to get a home audition.
Good to hear your experience matches that of Michael's though for the Playback.

Cheers
Orb

MylesBAstor said:

Now I've never heard this in my system but the best I've heard (and if I had to plunk down money for) is the Playback Designs using hi-rez digital files created by Bruce Brown. This actually had some semblance of instrumental body and less of the least of that digititus/coldness/steeliness/mechanical quality that really sends me running from the room.

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This is a really sad state of affairs for the audio industry, that people can still say this and the comment is unchallenged. Which to me means that probably the majority agree with the point of view. If the only way for people to get agreeable digital sound is to either do heavy duty tweaking, like my approach, or to play musical chairs with sometimes very expensive gear for years and years, then it demonstrates that the way the audio community, especially the manufacturers, approaches the business of getting good sound needs a really, really good shake up ...

Frank

From the Onedof site: "The total runout, measured at the edge of the freshly manufactured platter when it is spinning on the metalworking lathe is 0.0002 in. (5 micrometers) or 1/10 of the human hair thickness. The total runout of the platter spinning on the Onedof™ bearing is also .0002 in. Subtracting one small number from the equal small number, we are receiving ZERO total runout of the platter bearing in radial or axial direction. Because of the self-centering capability, the platter bearing is even more precise than the lathe on which the parts of the bearing were manufactured."

My brother, who is a mech engineer, tells me that this statement is total 'BS'.

DaveyF said:

From the Onedof site: "The total runout, measured at the edge of the freshly manufactured platter when it is spinning on the metalworking lathe is 0.0002 in. (5 micrometers) or 1/10 of the human hair thickness. The total runout of the platter spinning on the Onedof™ bearing is also .0002 in. Subtracting one small number from the equal small number, we are receiving ZERO total runout of the platter bearing in radial or axial direction. Because of the self-centering capability, the platter bearing is even more precise than the lathe on which the parts of the bearing were manufactured."

My brother, who is a mech engineer, tells me that this statement is total 'BS'.

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Over price in one item is not a wise idea, for me I will spend 50K to tape source and 100K for amps and speakers, I do believe this idea will be much better result in sound quality
tony ma

MylesBAstor said:

Oh yeah.....know how hard it is to tell an exhibitor that the left and right channels are reversed?

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I thought they were going to call security when I questioned why the woofers were dancing in and out to a sine wave during playback. They seemed to get ridiculously offended when I placed a finger at the outer edge of the surround to make it easy to physically count the ~5Hz rumble the amp was doing such a nice job of amplifying. The woofer dance was volume dependent, so clearly was upstream of the volume control. I decided to be polite and only answer "that's doubtful" to the answer given by the woman working the room stating that "the speakers were designed to do that!"

cool looking table, but $150K ? Can you say maximizing profit margin ? Yikes !