Network Cables

Steve Williams · May 15, 2010

I have been reading with great interest mep's thread on "live vs recorded" music and the quest for the absolute sound.

Some blame the recording microphones as the culprit whereas others state it to be the speakers as the inherent problem.

Then came the following from Frantz (with which BTW I agree) about network cables

Several cables have network which sole purpose is to change what passes through them: one of the most expensive cable even has an "Articulation Control" built-in ... So I am not too sure the signal that comes out of it is "pure" anymore, it may (and that is debatable) do less harm than the early DRC, I wouldn't know, but harm, it inflicts to the signal ...

My good friend Ron Party always posts that in music our ears are attracted to the "flavor" of music that lights them up in the most pleasing way.

There have been debates here re digital vs analog with zealots in both camps

This takes me back to the topic of "network cables". It makes perfect sense to me as to Frantz claim. Heck, how could it not make sense if the signal out is different than the signal into the network box.

My question is not to denigrate the very nature of network cables but rather to ask if this concept takes us to Ron Party's analogy of "music flavor" that is pleasing to our ears rather than striving to reach the absolute sound of live music

RBFC · May 15, 2010

Just to be difficult:

If we are agreed that there is some loss/change in the signal by merely recording it and attempting to play it back, is it possible that another "alteration" in the chain may actually restore something that is an element of live music?

Lee

amirm · May 15, 2010

Steve Williams said:
This takes me back to the topic of "network cables". It makes perfect sense to me as to Frantz claim. Heck, how could it not make sense if the signal out is different than the signal into the network box.

I will make you more confused

. Many amps have output filters internally on their output (on the way to speaker terminals) as to stabilize the amp and keep it from oscillating. All the signal goes through that just the same. Do people go and get schematics for an amp and avoid all the ones with output filters (yes, I realize there are a few amps without such circuits but let's put that aside)? If a network is OK inside the amp, why not outside?

amirm · May 15, 2010

RBFC said:
Just to be difficult:

If we are agreed that there is some loss/change in the signal by merely recording it and attempting to play it back, is it possible that another "alteration" in the chain may actually restore something that is an element of live music?

Lee

Perceptually that is possible. Let's say the recording and playback chain imparted high-frequency harshness. If you filtered that, which a network can easily do, then you get a more pleasing signal if you equate too much high frequency content as the system not sounding good (so called "digital" sound).

From a technical point of view though, a linear device can never guess and reconstruct what is truly missing. It can only blindly alter what is fed to it. In that sense, if the source was produced where its high frequency content was just right, the above filter now is taking things away, rather than "restoring" anything.

Steve Williams · May 15, 2010

Not any more confusion but rather reinforces Ron Party's postulate that we pick our gear for the sake of the pleasing flavor it imparts to our ears. This unfortunately does not bring us any closer to the absolute sound

RBFC · May 15, 2010

amirm said:
Perceptually that is possible. Let's say the recording and playback chain imparted high-frequency harshness. If you filtered that, which a network can easily do, then you get a more pleasing signal if you equate too much high frequency content as the system not sounding good (so called "digital" sound).

From a technical point of view though, a linear device can never guess and reconstruct what is truly missing. It can only blindly alter what is fed to it. In that sense, if the source was produced where its high frequency content was just right, the above filter now is taking things away, rather than "restoring" anything.

Whether by accident or not, if the sound is actually closer to the live event perceptually, then the network may be "beneficial" in a certain application. Since we really don't know completely what is missing, we sure can't understand how to restore it. It may be phase anomalies, frequency response anomalies, dynamic compression, etc. or a combination of these qualities that the recording process alters. In certain systems, a "network" or another component may contribute some type of inversion/compensation effect and actually produce a better illusion of reality. Many great discoveries are total accidents. HMMMM.....

Lee

Lee

Ron Party · May 15, 2010

amirm said:
I will make you more confused . Many amps have output filters internally on their output (on the way to speaker terminals) as to stabilize the amp and keep it from oscillating. All the signal goes through that just the same. Do people go and get schematics for an amp and avoid all the ones with output filters (yes, I realize there are a few amps without such circuits but let's put that aside)? If a network is OK inside the amp, why not outside?

Very interesting. Amir, is this an apples to apples comparison, e.g. the output filter inside an amp vs. a *network* Transparent or MIT speaker cable? I know you like to look at the data, and I am wondering if have access to any.

amirm · May 15, 2010

It is not quite apples-to-apples as the network inside the amp is a simple low-pass filter and I suspect these guys deploy other types of networks. But the top principal is the same: some circuit is in the path of the signal.

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Network Cables

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