Simaudio Moon 650D compared to Playback Designs MPS-5

[Orb]

Very interesting review of both in November Stereophile by Michael Fremer, for me this makes it interesting as like quite a few here he loves vinyl and makes him good to suggest if a digital component is adding fatigue,etc.

Now what is really interesting is that Michael Fremer prefers the Moon 650D, both from subtle sound quality improvements and also listening preference when it comes to fatigue,etc.

I understand some here have gone with the Playback Designs components, but for those on more of a budget this Simaudio player/DAC may be as good as any high end DAC-player out there while being very competitively priced at $8,000 for SOTA high end (appreciate some will find even this price too much for digital).

I do not want to quote MF as it is not on the website yet but in the magazine.
Definitely has me curious what others have made of the 650D (not the higher but older model).

Cheers
Orb

[jazdoc]

I know this doesn't directly answer your question but I do own the older model you mention, the SimMoon Andromeda and have a fair amount of experience with the Playback Designs. Both are excellent and definitely have their own characteristic sound. The Andromeda sound is definitely consistent with the SimMoon 'house sound' which was evident in their room at RMAF. I could live happily with either unit and I think as usual, Fremer did a very good job of describing the differences. In this case, preference is based on taste....

[Orb]

Just a quick headsup, the review is now available on the SP website.
Definitely worth a read for those who are after SOTA redbook playback and DAC for other sources such as PC, or if curious about the comparison.
http://www.stereophile.com/content/s...650d-cd-player

Cheers
Orb

[fas42]

It's pretty depressing to read that review, if that's the standard of digital playback most people are experiencing even with the most ambitous units out there then it doesn't say much for the rest of the stuff. The words harsh, glare, hard, cardboard are far too prominent in his description: to put it bluntly, if I had either of those units and wasn't allowed to sort them out, they would be tossed into the rubbish bin ...

Frank

[Orb]

Hmm, but those descriptions were not applied to the 650D Frank.
In fact MF states:

As I write this, I'm listening to the pipe organs on Pipes Rhode Island (CD, Riago CD 101), and this player has bottom-end muscle. But more than that, the 650D is essentially free of glare and grain on top, while exhibiting exceptional transparency and transient clarity. It also managed sweetness and delicacy without sounding soft or mushy. The 650D made CDs and CD-resolution files sound about as good as I've heard them sound here, while its decoding of hi-rez files produced exceptional soundstage width and depth combined with analog-like imaging.

I loved Simaudio's Moon Evolution 650D. Ignore the somewhat less than appealing industrial design and go directly to the sound, and I think you'll love it as much as I do.

Just clarifying this as some reading your comments may apply them the review specific to the 650D, when they are key descriptors used to evaluate in comparison to other products, that may subjectively have those.

Cheers
Orb

[fas42]

Orb, I appreciate he has higher regard of the Moon, but he still says things like this when listening to the 650D:

"its mid-1950s origins are obvious in its overly generous midrange and upper midrange, which put the strings, woodwinds, and brass at the beginning in a bit of a confused, bulbous haze"

"with an almost complete absence of digital glare and hardness."

"surprised me with nice textures that were mostly free of cardboardy overlay"

"Mick Jagger's voice sounded somewhat hard and two-dimensional"

"when the 16-bit version of the track began, I could sense that the "room sound" was missing. "

Again, he much preferred the actual model being reviewed, yet he was still able to make the above comments. For something that expensive, and current, I would have hoped we had moved further on ...

Frank

[Orb]

Yeah I agree but it needs to be read within context.
Bear in mind that MF is a vinyl fanatic and so from a subjective preference comparison "almost complete" suggests getting close to his vinyl preference, one of the points I make about this player being of interest is just how it is so well received by Fremer.
Furthermore these are description to the 44.1/cd redbook music.
If CD redbook was perfect then there would be no need for hirez
Which he really raves about on the 650D, now I appreciate hirez compared to CD is a bit controversial, but anecdotally/subjectively hirez is closer to vinyl in terms of preference, with many posts on the subject already here on WBF.

Cheers
Orb

[fas42]

Furthermore these are description to the 44.1/cd redbook music.
If CD redbook was perfect then there would be no need for hirez
Which he really raves about on the 650D, now I appreciate hirez compared to CD is a bit controversial, but anecdotally/subjectively hirez is closer to vinyl in terms of preference, with many posts on the subject already here on WBF.

Cheers
Orb

Yep, I agree, let's not get onto that hairy area, leave well enough alone ... :-() :-()

Frank

[zerung]

I am straddling both the world of CAS and Digital at the same time with a very strong resolution not to be lead down the vinyl path. The solution of an integrated CDP and DAC is very important to me and I was keen to settle for such a new unit soon for the past 6 months. The latest CAS direction down the DSD path has thrown my research into a disarray. I was sure my hardware direction was resolved in favour of unit such as the EAR Acute II - I would have liked to get the Playback Design 5S but the cost was, is too much of an issue (Specially in comparison with Acute). This 650D looks special (Bridiging the $ divide) specially if the latest DSD software upgrade being mooted by DCS will be a reality and SimAudio will follow. I am not fully upto speed on the hardware side of the DSD upgrade and wonder if the 650 Saber chip will support the DSD conversion?

Whilst my hardware at present are not cheap by any stretch of one's imagination, I am very keen not to add an expensive component which will have me glancing sideways in another 6 months. The digital section is so much of a difficult, small and evershifting divide, like teenagers first love...what I need to emulate is my use of the present Revox C221 CDP - something which has stood the test of time and value for money. Is this 650 the answer?

[pwfletcher]

Everything SimAudio makes is amazing. And, they're from Canada ;-)