Graham Phantom II Supreme

rockitman

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anyone using Bob's new arm ? Thoughts ? TIA

I would also be interested in how the cart alignment off table works using just the arm wand and some kind of jig. Bob Graham's website offeres little info and no manuals for download.
 

MylesBAstor

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anyone using Bob's new arm ? Thoughts ? TIA

I would also be interested in how the cart alignment off table works using just the arm wand and some kind of jig. Bob Graham's website offeres little info and no manuals for download.

Can't speak to the arm but the cartridge alignment jig is pure genius. Wish Bob would market it for other manufacturers arms but he seems to want to maintain his "advantage." Simply put, it takes all of five mins, as claimed, to set align cartridges for his arm. It doesn't matter if the body is round, hexagon, doesn't have a straight line to it, or if the cartridge has "no" cantilever like the London/Decca or an Ikeda; one can be pretty damn sure about the cartridge's squareness. It's been years since I used it but I seem to remember that you put the arm in the jig and then flip a plastic piece with alignment lines over the bottom of the cartridge. Then all one need to do is align by eye. An absolute joy to use. But of course one still needs to set azimuth and SRA.
 

rockitman

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Can't speak to the arm but the cartridge alignment jig is pure genius. Wish Bob would market it for other manufacturers arms but he seems to want to maintain his "advantage." Simply put, it takes all of five mins, as claimed, to set align cartridges for his arm. It doesn't matter if the body is round, hexagon, doesn't have a straight line to it, or if the cartridge has "no" cantilever like the London/Decca or an Ikeda; one can be pretty damn sure about the cartridge's squareness. It's been years since I used it but I seem to remember that you put the arm in the jig and then flip a plastic piece with alignment lines over the bottom of the cartridge. Then all one need to do is align by eye. An absolute joy to use. But of course one still needs to set azimuth and SRA.

so there's no stressing trying to align the cantilever at the null points (can be difficult with carts whose cantilever is under the cart body) like the tradition protractor jig method ?
 

JackD201

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I have both the Phantom 1 and 2 on the same table. Like Myles says, it's a piece of cake even for a sausage fingered guy like me.
 

JackD201

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I'm sure it's around here somewhere. To be honest I didn't need instructions. The dealer walked me through the process just once and I did it all by myself from that point on. Here's the process.

1. Take the arm wand and screw on the cart firmly but with just enough pressure so you can move it about.
2. Insert the cart bolts in the slots on the alignment jig
3. Flip the clear panel over the stylus
4. Move the cart until the stylus tip is on the marker and the cantilever is aligned with the vertical lines
5. Tighten

That's it :)

Oh, but before putting on the cart, you need to get the right spindle/pivot distance when mounting the arm on the board. To do this there's a plastic piece that goes on the spindle. Move the armboard , I'm assuming you'll be putting this on your new CA :) , until the designated hole on the wand accepts the nub sticking out of the plastic thing that looks like a thimble. Tighten everything up and that's done too. Also extremely simple.
 

rockitman

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I'm sure it's around here somewhere. To be honest I didn't need instructions. The dealer walked me through the process just once and I did it all by myself from that point on. Here's the process.

1. Take the arm wand and screw on the cart firmly but with just enough pressure so you can move it about.
2. Insert the cart bolts in the slots on the alignment jig
3. Flip the clear panel over the stylus
4. Move the cart until the stylus tip is on the marker and the cantilever is aligned with the vertical lines
5. Tighten

That's it :)

Oh, but before putting on the cart, you need to get the right spindle/pivot distance when mounting the arm on the board. To do this there's a plastic piece that goes on the spindle. Move the armboard , I'm assuming you'll be putting this on your new CA :) , until the designated hole on the wand accepts the nub sticking out of the plastic thing that looks like a thimble. Tighten everything up and that's done too. Also extremely simple.

Thanks Jack, I think this arm may be in my near future.
 

JackD201

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Anytime Christian, keep on rockin' :)
 

MylesBAstor

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Thanks Jack, I think this arm may be in my near future.

Could do a lot worse :) Bob is one of the unsung geniuses in the industry; too bad, his business acumen isn't up to his designing :(

BTW, I see he's building a new turntable. Would love to see that when it's eventually finished!
 

rockitman

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Could do a lot worse :) Bob is one of the unsung geniuses in the industry; too bad, his business acumen isn't up to his designing :(

BTW, I see he's building a new turntable. Would love to see that when it's eventually finished!

I will be getting one soon (10") with additional arm tube. Awesome flexibility. That leaves one spot on the new table...Talea 2 or Reed 3Q...that is the question.....
 

naturephoto1

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I will be getting one soon (10") with additional arm tube. Awesome flexibility. That leaves one spot on the new table...Talea 2 or Reed 3Q...that is the question.....

You may also wish to consider the Teres Illius tonearm:

http://www.teresaudio.com/illius.html



I have the first Teres Illius production arm.

Rich
 

Mike Lavigne

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i've owned 2 Graham's, a 1.5tc and and a 2. and i agree that the jig is wonderful.

it's only limitation is that it uses a mean value for VTF; which may or may not correlate to what you are using. which can then change the spot on overhang. no doubt the jig would still get you pretty close, and i suppose if your cartridge happened to like where the mean value happens to be then you should be right on.

if i now owned a Graham arm i would absolutely use a Mint Lp protractor to set up the arm......which does take longer but would be more precise unless your VTF happens to be exactly what Graham has spec'd for VTF. as changing VTF cartridge suspension compression of the suspension does change overhang slightly. i've used cartridges from 1.35 grams to 3.30 grams ideal VTF. within a + or - of .20 grams cartridge dispacement changes are neglidgable. but more than that there are real overhang changes.

maybe the exception might be if i loved a cartridge which had one of those huge bodies that overhung the stylus so i could not see what i was doing anyway. then the jig might be more accurate than the Mint Lp.

of course; with the A90 seeing the stylus is not an issue.

i suppose one could do some experimenting with lead tape to add weight to the swinging part of the jig and get quite close to any VTF value higher than the mean value Graham uses. it would be tough to figure out how to do it lower than the mean value but that's doable too.

the only other issue with the jig is that you do have mechanical and electrical connections in the arm and cable which cannot help with performance. do they hurt performance? unless you had an identical Graham arm without them it is hard to know exactly. my guess is that they do have a cost in ultimate performance. OTOH those arm wands are very precisely built and having multiple cartridges on multiple armwands is very cool.
 
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rockitman

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it's only limitation is that it uses a mean value for VTF; which may or may not correlate to what you are using. which can then change the spot on overhang. no doubt the jig would still get you pretty close, and i suppose if your cartridge happened to like where the mean value happens to be then you should be right on.

if i now owned a Graham arm i would absolutely use a Mint Lp protractor to set up the arm......which does take longer but would be more precise unless your VTF happens to be exactly what Graham has spec'd for VTF. as changing VTF cartridge suspension compression of the suspension does change overhang slightly. i've used cartridges from 1.35 grams to 3.30 grams ideal VTF. within a + or - of .20 grams cartridge dispacement changes are neglidgable. but more than that there are real overhang changes.

maybe the exception might be if i loved a cartridge which had one of those huge bodies that overhung the stylus so i could not see what i was doing anyway. then the jig might be more accurate than the Mint Lp.

of course; with the A90 seeing the stylus is not an issue.

i suppose one could do some experimenting with lead tape to add weight to the swinging part of the jig and get quite close to any VTF value higher than the mean value Graham uses. it would be tough to figure out how to do it lower than the mean value but that's doable too.

the only other issue with the jig is that you do have mechanical and electrical connections in the arm and cable which cannot help with performance. do they hurt performance? unless you had an identical Graham arm without them it is hard to know exactly. my guess is that they do have a cost in ultimate performance. OTOH those arm wands are very precisely built and having multiple cartridges on multiple armwands is very cool.

So that I am understanding this... what you are saying is since the jig mount method is off table, my cart's recommended VTF is not taken into account like traditional protractor methods on table. So if the jig assumes a certain value for VTF, it may not be the same as what the cart's recommended VTF is and what I use, thus if there is some difference between the VTF I use with the cart and the VTF assumption the jig was designed with, that's where the overhang error could be ?
 

Mike Lavigne

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So that I am understanding this... what you are saying is since the jig mount method is off table, my cart's recommended VTF is not taken into account like traditional protractor methods on table. So if the jig assumes a certain value for VTF, it may not be the same as what the cart's recommended VTF is and what I use, thus if there is some difference between the VTF I use with the cart and the VTF assumption the jig was designed with, that's where the overhang error could be ?

yes.

we are talking about very small differences due to VTF dispacement variations from VTF to VTF. and i'm assuming that Graham likely uses approx 2 grams as a mean VTF value for it's jig. so if you are close to that then my point has no affect on your setup. but over the entire range of cartridge VTF targets the Graham jig can only be at one value. so there are cartridges where this approach is not ideal.

and i've not used this jig since 2001. so maybe there is a compensation for this factor as it's currently used.

the way to really know if the Graham jig is spot on for your cartridge is to get a Mint Lp for your arm and tt and check it. then you will know.
 

rockitman

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Sep 20, 2011
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yes.

we are talking about very small differences due to VTF dispacement variations from VTF to VTF. and i'm assuming that Graham likely uses approx 2 grams as a mean VTF value for it's jig. so if you are close to that then my point has no affect on your setup. but over the entire range of cartridge VTF targets the Graham jig can only be at one value. so there are cartridges where this approach is not ideal.

and i've not used this jig since 2001. so maybe there is a compensation for this factor as it's currently used.

the way to really know if the Graham jig is spot on for your cartridge is to get a Mint Lp for your arm and tt and check it. then you will know.

Thanks for pointing this out to me Mike. Those deep thoughts contribute greatly to my audio nervosa...:D
Apparently there is a new jig incarnation for the Phantom II Supreme: CA-5 cartridge alignment gauge incorporates vertical adjustment to optimize for different height phono cartridges

I guess what will be most important is the value of the assumed VTF on the guage. Hopefully that is shared in the instructions. If I know that value, I like your idea of adding weight to match my desired tracking force for the cart in question if it is more than the jig's mean value. Going in the opposite direction say the mean is 2 grams on the guage, how could I simulate less tracking force on the jig for a cart that tracks at 1.6 grams ? :confused:
 

Mike Lavigne

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Thanks for pointing this out to me Mike. Those deep thoughts contribute greatly to my audio nervosa...:D
Apparently there is a new jig incarnation for the Phantom II Supreme: CA-5 cartridge alignment gauge incorporates vertical adjustment to optimize for different height phono cartridges

I guess what will be most important is the value of the assumed VTF on the guage. Hopefully that is shared in the instructions. If I know that value, I like your idea of adding weight to match my desired tracking force for the cart in question if it is more than the jig's mean value. Going in the opposite direction say the mean is 2 grams on the guage, how could I simulate less tracking force on the jig for a cart that tracks at 1.6 grams ? :confused:

likely the easiest way to deal with lighter than 'mean' value for VTF would be to contact the cartridge manufacturer and ask for data on how much more deflection the cantiliver has with the higher VTF weight. then make the adjustment looking at the jig.

you'd need the 'mean' value from Graham for that, of course.

oh; and i'd forgot about the issue of cartridge height, which is actually a larger issue than the VTF variations. it's nice that that now that can be adjusted.

i wonder if the Mint Lp alignment protractor was out when Bob Graham was doing his arm if he would still have done the jig. it's so easy, dead on precise, and none of these issues matter.
 
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rockitman

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How does the Mint work Mike ? I have gone to the site.... A couple things I can't figure out:

1) Does the mint tractor have a line that must be eyed to the pivot point and then you lock it and the platter down ? I see errors trying to get that right (The eyeing of a straight line to the pivot).

2) Since the mint does not lock onto the pivot point (with an arm) like a Feikert for example, how do you know it's correctly positioned or doesn't that matter ?

any clues you could provide on the procedure how you use it would be very helpful. TIA.
 

Mike Lavigne

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How does the Mint work Mike ? I have gone to the site.... A couple things I can't figure out:

1) Does the mint tractor have a line that must be eyed to the pivot point and then you lock it and the platter down ? I see errors trying to get that right (The eyeing of a straight line to the pivot).

2) Since the mint does not lock onto the pivot point (with an arm) like a Feikert for example, how do you know it's correctly positioned or doesn't that matter ?

any clues you could provide on the procedure how you use it would be very helpful. TIA.

the Mint Lp does not deal directly with spindle to pivot distance. it presumes that the user gets that right first. i do have the Feickert tool for exact spindle to pivot measurement; which i used for my Reed's and the Triplaner (who's own included template is wrong, btw). the Talea comes with a great template which is fool proof for spindle to pivot measurement.

the great thing about the Mint Lp is that it is arm specific and turntable specific (spindle size); so you know it is right. and the lines are precise, and you have the parallellogram of the mirror for exact alignment. after you use it 2 or 3 times it becomes easy. the instructions are great.

as far as getting the Mint Lp into the correct position; you use a bit of tape to hold it in place for alignment (once you have the overhang right) and a wedge of paper to hold the platter from moving. to get the overhang right there is a back and forth process of checking inner and outer null points until you are spot on. it sounds hard but in practice it's not that hard but a bit tedious. the instructions include reommendations for taking breaks to make sure your head is right for proper focus.

and in the context of the investments we have in arms and cartridges; $110-$130 bucks is pretty reasonable.

and spot on alignment is essential for getting our money's worth from our gear.
 
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rockitman

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the Mint Lp does not deal directly with spindle to pivot distance. it presumes that the user gets that right first. i do have the Feickert tool for exact spindle to pivot measurement; which i used for my Reed's and the Triplaner (who's own included template is wrong, btw). the Talea comes with a great template which is fool proof for spindle to pivot measurement.

the great thing about the Mint Lp is that it is arm specific and turntable specific (spindle size); so you know it is right. and the lines are precise, and you have the parallellogram of the mirror for exact alignment. after you use it 2 or 3 times it becomes easy. the instructions are great.

and in the context of the investments we have in arms and cartridges; $110-$130 bucks is pretty reasonable.

I need one....Thanks Mike.
 

rockitman

Member Sponsor
Sep 20, 2011
7,097
412
1,210
Northern NY
the Mint Lp does not deal directly with spindle to pivot distance. it presumes that the user gets that right first. i do have the Feickert tool for exact spindle to pivot measurement; which i used for my Reed's and the Triplaner (who's own included template is wrong, btw). the Talea comes with a great template which is fool proof for spindle to pivot measurement.

the great thing about the Mint Lp is that it is arm specific and turntable specific (spindle size); so you know it is right. and the lines are precise, and you have the parallellogram of the mirror for exact alignment. after you use it 2 or 3 times it becomes easy. the instructions are great.

as far as getting the Mint Lp into the correct position; you use a bit of tape to hold it in place (once you have the overhang right) and a wedge of paper to hold the platter from moving. to get the overhang right there is a back and forth process of checking inner and outer null points until you are spot on. it sounds hard but inpractice it's not that hard.

and in the context of the investments we have in arms and cartridges; $110-$130 bucks is pretty reasonable.

One last thing...how do you know where to position the tractor mirror on the stabilized platter ?The only thing keeping it in place is the spindle hole in the tractor. Seems to me the tractor can move around if it's not affixed to the platter. What am I missing here ?
 

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