Esoteric SACDs

RBFC said:

Has anyone had a chance to check out the new Esoteric SACD re-releases? I've heard widely varying opinions as to the upgrade in sound quality. At $60 each, and my being a financial mortal, it's hard to just buy some to find out what's up with them....

Lee

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I realize this is a very old thread, but since no one else responded, I will! They do sound better than the originals, but not nearly 4x to justify the quadrupled cost. It's hard to quantify such an improvement, e.g. "25% more detail" or something, but generally, they are warmer, more detailed, and usually have a wider/deeper image. I've purchased just a few favorite recordings, but I doubt I'll buy any more. Better, yes, but just not a night and day difference, and rarely worth the extra expense.

I have 4 titles. 2 are superb and frankly happy to pay the $60. One is ok...and one I just don't like the music and how it's recorded (distant piano and orchestra)

I'll be very careful, but I'll likely buy a few more on music i like better...wish they did more with Jazz...

They have just released a few good historical Impulse recordings...

RBFC said:

I sure lusted after the Solti Ring, but it is just too much$$$.

Lee

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I think you will find that the much cheaper Decca-label BD-A remastering sounds better than the Esoteric SACD or the original vinyl, for that matter.

RBFC said:

Has anyone had a chance to check out the new Esoteric SACD re-releases? I've heard widely varying opinions as to the upgrade in sound quality. At $60 each, and my being a financial mortal, it's hard to just buy some to find out what's up with them....

Lee

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I have purchased several Esoteric disks.

In general, I think they are over-rated.

RBFC said:

I sure lusted after the Solti Ring, but it is just too much$$$.

Lee

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Is now a bad time to rub salt into the wound?



(And yes, I know you are a martial arts expert ... however I think I am safe on the other side of the world!!)

Yes, I have posted in detail my thoughts of the different versions in another thread. But in brief: none of them sound particularly good. By far the worst is the 1980's Decca remaster, which manages to sound both muddy and harsh at the same time. The vinyl is better, and the SACD is very close to vinyl. But none of these recordings compare to any modern recording.

The Solti Ring is supposedly the gold standard , with regards to performance/sound . Any experience with it ? Am about to call for it via Amazon .

Jazzhead said:

The Solti Ring is supposedly the gold standard , with regards to performance/sound . Any experience with it ? Am about to call for it via Amazon .

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The Solti Ring is the only Ring that actually follows all of Wagner's instructions, even down to the correct dynamic marks when the Nothung is being forged. The BD-A is excellent, much better than the Esoteric SACD's. I have heard both.

Is it the best? That depends on what you are after. It's not the best sung, nor the best played. It may be the most dramatic and hard charging.

Keith_W said:

Yes, I have posted in detail my thoughts of the different versions in another thread. But in brief: none of them sound particularly good. By far the worst is the 1980's Decca remaster, which manages to sound both muddy and harsh at the same time. The vinyl is better, and the SACD is very close to vinyl. But none of these recordings compare to any modern recording.

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That is exactly my feeling about those recordings.

Jazzhead said:

The Solti Ring is supposedly the gold standard , with regards to performance/sound . Any experience with it ? Am about to call for it via Amazon .

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The Solti Ring was a landmark in recorded history - superb performances by legendary performers, though a few were past their prime, plus excellent sound for its day. And, it was the first complete Ring recording project ever, which took, what, about 7 years to complete.

It is well worth having just on that basis alone. It is truly great, and I love it. But, it is not the best sounding recording of the Ring ever made. I think a number of more recent hi rez recordings, particularly in Mch sound, are much better. Unfortunately, while a number of these modern recordings are excellent, some on Blu-Ray video, none of them have the stellar cast that Culshaw assembled under Solti, though they may be terrific in their own right. John Culshaw, the producer, was a great genius. Look for The Golden Ring, an outstanding BBC documentary on DVD about the making of the Solti Gotterdaemmerung. It is even available via Netflix rental.

I would have to say based on my limited experience that the somewhat weird, but not Eurotrash, Valencia Ring of several years ago with Mehta conducting on BD-V is the one that has most impressed me in the last 10 years or so on sonics, production, casting, etc. I think my Wagner-nut case friend, Andy Quint, (I am a Wagner-nut too) who writes for TAS and Fanfare, would agree. Andy has every recording of Wagner operas ever made, including every Ring. My other good friend, Kal Rubinson, who writes for Stereophile preferred the Met recording on BD-V for sonics. I just do not like the Lepage Met production at all on the video side. I do not think that either of those has any advantage in casting.

I have had good experiences with Esoteric CDs so far. Mahler, Bruckner Symphonies, Mozart, Chopin, among others. Really enjoy Mahler's 5th - Barbirolli in particular.

I'm a Wagner buff, not quite the fanatic that Andy Quint is. Been to four Rings in my life, and I think I have about 25 Rings in a combination of vinyl, tape, CD, DVD and blu-ray. I would agree that the Solti is the best studio Ring ever done. As Fitzcaraldo mentioned, some of the cast were getting a little old - with the great Kirsten Flagstad singing Fricka instead of Brunnhilde, and both Hotter and Windgassen past their prime. My favorite two Rings come from the early to mid '50's recorded at Bayreuth. My favorite, despite sonics, is the Clemens Krauss 1953 Bayreuth Ring, and a close second is another Decca recording but never issued by them (rights issues complicated by EMI's Walter Legge) - Keilberth 1955 Ring (with the wonderful and underrated Astrid Varney singing Brunnhilde) which came out on Testament, in stereo a few years ago. I have those two both in vinyl. Sonics are quite amazing for such an early stereo recording. Roy Wallace, who designed the original Decca tree was the stereo engineer, while the great "Wilkie" Wilkinson was the mono engineer.

Many consider the 1950's as the true Golden Era of Wagnerian singers, although the '30's, with Melchior and Leider were right up there. Unfortunately at that time, there were only 78's, not the way to listen to Wagner.

I have the Solti Ring in original Decca vinyl pressings (including both the original Rheingold SXL-2101-3 and the later remastering SET382-4 from the late '60's). I also have the complete London issues of Reel to Reel 4tr/7.5ips Solti Ring. Producer John Culshaw's "The Ring Resounding" tells the story of the ups and downs of this mammoth project and is a very good read. I quote from him in my Decca book.

If you want to understand the Ring at a deep psychological level, I really like Robert Donington's "Wagner's 'Ring' and its Symbols", a Jungian analysis of the Ring. Bernard Shaw's "The Perfect Wagnerite" takes the Ring as a social class struggle, and is a fun, breezy, book. The centennial Ring, directed by Patrice Chereau and conducted by Boulez is based on that class struggle conception of the Ring. It now gets raves for conception and musicality, although it was very radical at the time.

Famously Mark Twain said "Wagner's Music is better than it sounds."

Larry